I would like to have a debate on panpsychism. In this debate, I am taking the position that panpsychism is a true reality.
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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The pros and cons of panpsychism
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Y'all are just a part of my imagination and don't exist outside of me. It is a credit to the creativeness of my imagination that you don't remain static but have changed each time I call you up, and providing you with an incredibly realistic facsimile of memories of living an actual "life."
That part amuses me immensely as it as resulted in the development of an artificial pseudo-cognizance.
Oh well. Time to feed the squirrels.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostY'all are just a part of my imagination and don't exist outside of me. It is a credit to the creativeness of my imagination that you don't remain static but have changed each time I call you up, and providing you with an incredibly realistic facsimile of memories of living an actual "life."
That part amuses me immensely as it as resulted in the development of an artificial pseudo-cognizance.
Oh well. Time to feed the squirrels.
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Let me try a different way here. I am trying to understand why it is said that panpsychism explains the hard problem of consciousness. Maybe taking a stance that I believe it is not the best way, because I don't necessarily believe it. I don't understand it. I'm just seeing where the logic goes.
How is panpsychism illogical and what implications does it carry with regard to anything. Just start somewhere and respond with your thoughts and we'll go from there.
Or rather, let me start : consciousness is fundamental.
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostLet me try a different way here. I am trying to understand why it is said that panpsychism explains the hard problem of consciousness. Maybe taking a stance that I believe it is not the best way, because I don't necessarily believe it. I don't understand it. I'm just seeing where the logic goes.
How is panpsychism illogical and what implications does it carry with regard to anything. Just start somewhere and respond with your thoughts and we'll go from there.
Or rather, let me start : consciousness is fundamental.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Machinist View Post
Could you rephrase that?
Maybe consciousness has a different connotation in your presentation?
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
When/while something can think, it is conscious.
Maybe consciousness has a different connotation in your presentation?
What does it mean that consciousness is fundamental? As far as I can tell, it means that matter, or the substance that matter is composed of (probably what space itself is composed of) is consciousness. Since we don't know what consciousness is, how can we say that consciousness is not fundamental?
If consciousness is not fundamental, what is fundamental? I'm trying to ask the right question here, in hopes of getting a creative response that may give a little more insight, which may in turn lead to a good discussion on panpsychism.
Rouge posted something pretty cryptic above if you need something to draw on, if you can make sense of it. I can't tell if it's meant to be ironic or what.
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How can something immaterial (thoughts, perceptions, experience, etc.) arise from something material (the brain). Why is there consciousness rather than unconsciousness? (Perhaps this is the same as asking why is there something rather than nothing?) Anyway, this is the hard problem of consciousness.
If we posit that consciousness is fundamental, then we're not crossing over than great a gulf when we say awareness arose from the living brain. In the current theory of emergence (in emergent dualism as well as materialism), you're crossing a chasm of kind. It says that this emergent property is not the same nature of the thing it emerged from.
In panpsychism, well, it's the same stuff. Consciousness arose from... consciousness. The consciousness of man would be of the same nature as the rest of the universe.
Now, does this really answer the question of the hard problem?
Anyway, if no one cares to discuss this philosophical concept on this forum, i'll leave it be.
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How did God create conscious beings? Maybe panpsychism could shed some light there. Because where did consciousness come from except from a conscious source.
In some sense, consciousness is fundamental.
Alright, i'll stop now.
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostAlright, i'll stop now.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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