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From Atheist Scientist To Christian...

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  • From Atheist Scientist To Christian...

    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Excellent. Keen to hear (read) comments from @The Lurch and @The Rogue?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Esther View Post
      Excellent. Keen to hear (read) comments from @The Lurch and @The Rogue?
      Me too!
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Esther View Post
        Excellent. Keen to hear (read) comments from @The Lurch and @The Rogue?
        Just rogue.

        I haven't listened to the video but have heard of him before. He is a member of BioLogos and the American Scientific Affiliation (ASA), both of which are groups of scientists who are also Christian. He also recently wrote a book that I've heard some good things about: The Work of his Hands


        Beyond that, not much else to say.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Just rogue.

          I haven't listened to the video but have heard of him before. He is a member of BioLogos and the American Scientific Affiliation (ASA), both of which are groups of scientists who are also Christian. He also recently wrote a book that I've heard some good things about: The Work of his Hands


          Beyond that, not much else to say.
          Well now that y'all (@seer and @Esther) got my comments that you said you were "keen" to hear...

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Well now that y'all (@seer and @Esther) got my comments that you said you were "keen" to hear...
            I thought the point in the video about there being no good models for biogenesis was interesting - do you agree?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post

              I thought the point in the video about there being no good models for biogenesis was interesting - do you agree?
              I really haven't looked into biogenesis that much and really don't have an informed opinion on the matter.


              It also looks like that the @name system is disabled.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • rogue06
                rogue06 commented
                Editing a comment
                I just realized that you mentioned and I repeated "biogenesis" -- which nobody today supports. I suppose you meant "abiogenesis"

            • #8
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Well now that y'all (@seer and @Esther) got my comments that you said you were "keen" to hear...
              Have you watched the video clip yet? I got the impression he is a creationist now?

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                I haven't listened to the video but have heard of him before. He is a member of BioLogos and the American Scientific Affiliation (ASA), both of which are groups of scientists who are also Christian. He also recently wrote a book that I've heard some good things about: The Work of his Hands
                Those are credible organizations. I was going to skip watching this video ... but now I'm interested.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Okay, so that was disappointing.

                  To Esther's question, Garte is an evolutionary creationist, like the other contributors to BioLogos, and I suppose most contributors to the ASA. And to expand on rogue's introduction, he is currently the editor-in-chief of the ASA's quarterly journal, so he's not the usual minor figure pumped up by creationists.

                  But this is just a generic gap-God conversion story, focusing on his feelings and an odd dream. Garte felt there was some spiritual component missing in his life. He felt what he was learning in science didn't jive with a materialistic worldview. He feels evolution can explain a lot, but not the origin of life, and by appeal to teleology, his God may plug the holes missing in current research on abiogenesis.

                  That's not an idea that has ever panned out before. But good luck with that, Sy. Maybe this time will be different.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                    But this is just a generic gap-God conversion story, focusing on his feelings and an odd dream. Garte felt there was some spiritual component missing in his life. He felt what he was learning in science didn't jive with a materialistic worldview. He feels evolution can explain a lot, but not the origin of life, and by appeal to teleology, his God may plug the holes missing in current research on abiogenesis.
                    Well, let's not indulge in science-of-the-gaps! The question is, do we understand enough to be able to estimate the probability of abiogenesis? I think we do, and it is extremely remote.

                    Source: Koonin

                    ...even in this toy model that assumes a deliberately inflated rate of RNA production, the probability that a coupled translation replication emerges by chance in a single O-region is P < 10–1,018. Obviously, this version of the breakthrough stage can be considered only in the context of a universe with an infinite (or, at the very least, extremely vast) number of O-regions. The model considered here is not supposed to be realistic, by any account. It only illustrates the difference in the demands on chance for the origin of different versions of the breakthrough system and, hence, the connections between this version and different cosmological models of the universe.

                    Source

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      Well, let's not indulge in science-of-the-gaps!
                      We should accept and even celebrate the gaps.

                      Science will never be able to answer every question. As an active researcher, albeit in mathematics, I'm okay with that. It's called job security at worst, and endless opportunities to be amazed by new discoveries at best.

                      The instant another method shows itself more reliable than scientific research, we should switch to that. Have you got one in mind?

                      The question is, do we ...
                      No, that's not the question. The task is always to figure out as much as we can, publish it, and then get to work trying to explain more. The cite you're providing is an extended argument to stop trying to figure things out.

                      If that works for you, go right ahead.

                      But here's another thought to keep in mind. Imagine you'd like something done, and you've got two people in mind to set to the task. One of them thinks they can do it, and the other one thinks they can't. Could be the the gloomy gus is right, but you're not sure.

                      Who are you going to give the job to?

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                        The instant another method shows itself more reliable than scientific research, we should switch to that. Have you got one in mind?
                        You have perhaps heard the term "scientific revolution". Faith in God I have found to be more reliable than science. But my point was that we shouldn't proclaim that science (as in the viewpoint of materialism) will answer all its questions.

                        The task is always to figure out as much as we can, publish it, and then get to work trying to explain more. The cite you're providing is an extended argument to stop trying to figure things out.
                        Well, it's reasonable to stop searching for a cause if we have a reasonable one. It is also reasonable not to look into remotely improbable causes, such as that my kitten is typing this message.

                        But here's another thought to keep in mind. Imagine you'd like something done, and you've got two people in mind to set to the task. One of them thinks they can do it, and the other one thinks they can't. Could be the the gloomy gus is right, but you're not sure.

                        Who are you going to give the job to?
                        The one that has the most experience? I think the person who has the most insight is the one to trust.

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          You have perhaps heard the term "scientific revolution". Faith in God I have found to be more reliable than science.
                          I’m familiar with scientific revolutions. I’m also aware that none of them proceeded from closer examination of any religion’s sacred texts.

                          Faith in God provides comforts that science doesn’t offer, but when it comes time to save a life in the aftermath of a traumatic injury or illness, prayer and a good surgeon is statistically no more reliable than a good surgeon operating alone, and in fact, less reliable if the patient is made aware of the prayers.

                          Granted, the Templeton Foundation could have saved that $2.4 million by making a closer examination of the Christian sacred texts.
                          .
                          But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

                          But without the scientific study, how would we know the Bible was true?

                          But my point was that we shouldn't proclaim that science (as in the viewpoint of materialism) will answer all its questions.
                          No, that was my point, as easily demonstrated by examining the passage of my post you stripped out:
                          .
                          Science will never be able to answer every question.

                          Please don’t do that again.

                          Your point was as follows:
                          .
                          Well, let's not indulge in science-of-the-gaps!

                          That’s an argument that a God of the Gaps is no worse than a Science of the Gaps, which is simply false.

                          The work of science is in filling the gaps that a God of the Gaps must maintain to safeguard its existence. More, promoting a God of the Gaps is an investment in not finding answers, turning ignorance into strength.

                          Well, it's reasonable to stop searching for a cause if we have a reasonable one.
                          And likewise in the absence of a reasonable cause, it’s reasonable to keep looking.
                          .
                          Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

                          There are myriad differences between a mud gollum and a biological organism composed of bones and tissue and nerves and blood vessels and organs, each cell containing a copy of a DNA recipe for reproduction. Whatever is described above, it’s no more human than the universe described in the previous chapter is our universe.

                          It is also reasonable not to look into remotely improbable causes, such as that my kitten is typing this message.
                          Or that life was breathed into the nostrils of a human-shaped mud gollum on an earth that had never seen rain before a single shrub had grown.

                          The one that has the most experience? I think the person who has the most insight is the one to trust.
                          The question was rhetorical, as a decision square shows. Either the task can be accomplished, or it can’t. If the task can be done, only the one who believes it can be done will accomplish it. If the task can’t be done, it makes no difference who makes the attempt. So there is in effect only one option that provides a chance of success.

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          Likewise.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            The question is, do we understand enough to be able to estimate the probability of abiogenesis?
                            Not even remotely close. A few people have spit-balled about some possible mechanisms. But our level of chemical and biochemical knowledge is about 100 years away from being able to say that we have anything resembling a good enough understanding to be able to estimate the probability of abiogenesis.

                            If it does turn out to be quite improbable that is actually quite a good thing from an atheist perspective as it implies the Great Filter is behind us not in front of us. If it turns out to be massively improbable that would also imply the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics would be likely true, with most universes having no life in them.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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