Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Problem Of Evil?
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View Post
No He set up human freedom, knowing that it would fail. Not ordaining that it would fail."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Nope the analogy holds. I knew that having a child would be difficult for me and my wife and it was pretty much certain that the child would suffer (to one degree or another) in this life. But we still decided it was worth it.
However, I am glad your child brought you both joy and, hopefully, not too much suffering."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
And you cannot address my points to explain why your omniscient creator being set up its creation to fail.
Isaiah 55
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
Neither you nor I can fully understand the ways of the Lord. Faith and trust come into play in the life of the believer, however, because we do believe and trust.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View Post
You are attempting to equate the mind of a supreme creator being into the construction of a mere mortal.
Isaiah 55
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
Neither you nor I can fully understand the ways of the Lord. Faith and trust come into play in the life of the believer, however, because we do believe and trust.
I form light and create darkness,
I make weal and create woe;
I the Lord do all these things.
Which belies the belief in an entirely compassionate deity. The deity in those verses is quite prepared to bring misery and horror.
That is not a deity I would want to believe in. Humans are quite capable of bringing about enough horror and misery by themselves."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
If something is omniscient it knows everything. In other words it ordains/destines everything and knows the outcome of every situation.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostYou are attempting to equate the mind of a mere mortal into the construct of a supreme creator being
And according to the belief in an omniscient deity that God gave us free will in full knowledge of what would happen. i.e. that its creation, Adam and Eve would be tempted by the serpent, eat the fruit, get expelled, and subsequent human misery [sin] would follow.
This belief becomes even weirder when we consider that this creator being also knew [outside time and because it is omniscient] that it would then have send part of itself to be sacrificed to sort out the problem that it had knowingly and in full knowledge initiated/set up.
.
It's not weird that God allowed his creation free will knowing they would sin and having a plan in place to redeem them. It was better than creating automatons that had no free will. This way we not only have the free will to choose to follow and love our creator, we have experienced how bad sin and evil really are. Just as your son learned various lessons by failing or getting hurt along the way growing up. He is a better human being because of his failures than if he had been overly protected his whole life.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Well if we are quote-mining texts out of context then ten chapters back we have this.
I form light and create darkness,
I make weal and create woe;
I the Lord do all these things.
Which belies the belief in an entirely compassionate deity. The deity in those verses is quite prepared to bring misery and horror.
Who said that the Deity is entirely compassionate? He is also a perfectly righteous and just Being. Scripture is very clear in laying out the penalty for sin. And because all of creation is in a fallen state, good and bad things happen. After all, the rain falls on the just and the unjust.
[quite]That is not a deity I would want to believe in. Humans are quite capable of bringing about enough horror and misery by themselves.[/QUOTE]
Aren’t you glad you have a choice? What a horror it would be for you to end up in the presence of the Creator God for all eternity when you hate Him so much.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
If something is omniscient it knows everything. In other words it ordains/destines everything and knows the outcome of every situation.
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Nope, that doesn't follow. Knowing that my son would at times would disobey me (with nearly certain knowledge) before he was born does not mean that I wanted him to or condoned it.
God knew the behaviour of every person that would be born before He created anything.
HA doesn’t seem to be able to grasp the difference.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Neither you nor your wife are omniscient and omnipotent creator beings that exist outside time.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Neither you nor your wife are omniscient and omnipotent creator beings that exist outside time.
However, I am glad your child brought you both joy and, hopefully, not too much suffering.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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If Adam and Eve would have resisted the temptation in the garden, it still would have been possible for God to satisfy his desire for glorification through the free will of man and the reciprocity of love. Don't you think?
In fact, Plan B must have been something even greater, because surely He didn't want man to to fall. So it was really Plan A...man just chose plan B.
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