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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Representations and depictions of the deity
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
OK - you and Hypatia Alexandria have between you made a good enough case to hold that the shroud is not authentic. With the usual rider that unexpected and particularly impressive evidence to the contrary might make reopening the books worthwhile.
Should you ever find yourself in Vienna you should visit the Schatzkammer. There you will find some fascinating artefacts that represent both credulity and superb craftsmanship. These include Jesus' swaddling bands, yet another of Veronica's veils, another thorn from the crown of thorns, the lance of Longinus, and even the Holy Grail.
If you have any interest in embroidery there are also stunning examples of needlework dating back several centuries."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Years ago, I went to a Christian camp where there was this prayer closet, and in this space, there was a life size statue of Jesus upon the Cross. This was with a non-denominational, charismatic type church. The closet was a small room where you could have some quiet time in prayer.
Also, if anyone could tell me...but I read somewhere that the ancient Jews were the first to have this notion of an image-less deity (no graven image), the name also couldn't be spoken or written. I've read that no other religion has ever had such a concept.
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostYears ago, I went to a Christian camp where there was this prayer closet, and in this space, there was a life size statue of Jesus upon the Cross.
He remembers his terror at this object.
Originally posted by Machinist View PostThis was with a non-denominational, charismatic type church. The closet was a small room where you could have some quiet time in prayer.
Originally posted by Machinist View PostAlso, if anyone could tell me...but I read somewhere that the ancient Jews were the first to have this notion of an image-less deity (no graven image), the name also couldn't be spoken or written. I've read that no other religion has ever had such a concept.
And of course the "Priestly" views were not always followed by the ordinary man or woman, as the "folk religion" of archaeological evidence has attested with regard to Asherah, the goddess that was venerated as the traditional consort of the god Yahweh, the god of the Bible..
Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 12-01-2021, 07:02 AM."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Machinist View Post
It was for some I suppose. No one complained about it and the room seemed to always be occupied.
It reminds me of the joke about the old Jewish gentleman in the Catholic hospital. Naturally his room contained a crucifix on the wall which he asked the nurse to remove, noting that "one suffering Jew is enough "."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Fair enough. It seems very odd to me to use such a representation for contemplation.
It reminds me of the joke about the old Jewish gentleman in the Catholic hospital. Naturally his room contained a crucifix on the wall which he asked the nurse to remove, noting that "one suffering Jew is enough ".
I'm not too sure as to the attitudes toward icons and artefacts such as this within Christendom though. I often hear protestants charge Catholics with Idolatry. In Hebrew history, yes, there was a direct command to not make any graven image, but there isn't anything in the NT about this issue as far as I know.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
And of course the "Priestly" views were not always followed by the ordinary man or woman, as the "folk religion" of archaeological evidence has attested with regard to Asherah, the goddess that was venerated as the traditional consort of the god Yahweh, the god of the Bible..
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by Machinist View Post
HaHa!
I'm not too sure as to the attitudes toward icons and artefacts such as this within Christendom though. I often hear protestants charge Catholics with Idolatry. In Hebrew history, yes, there was a direct command to not make any graven image, but there isn't anything in the NT about this issue as far as I know.
That is yet another tension in the religion where it tries [unsuccessfully] to reconcile the unseen and ineffable deity of Judaism with Hellenistic anthropomorphic deities. One religion was iconoclastic the others not."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe Bible makes it clear that such lapses were very common."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
As we all know Christians have often killed one another over icons.
That is yet another tension in the religion where it tries [unsuccessfully] to reconcile the unseen and ineffable deity of Judaism with Hellenistic anthropomorphic deities. One religion was iconoclastic the others not.
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostAlso, if anyone could tell me...but I read somewhere that the ancient Jews were the first to have this notion of an image-less deity (no graven image), the name also couldn't be spoken or written. I've read that no other religion has ever had such a concept.
The prohibition against graven images applies to "anything in heaven above, or on the earth beneath, or in the waters below," and yet the same book -- Exodus -- records the specifications for the Ark of the Covenant, including graven images of cherubim for the cover.
The prohibition against speaking YHWH is not found in Scripture. (I am skeptical there was a prohibition against writing it. If there were, it would not occur in Scripture, but it does.) I've always been a bit bemused by the fact that I AM was very explicit in revealing His name to Moses, and told Him,
“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation."
And yet at some point they became reverently afraid to actually "call" Him by that name. When they read the Scriptures and came to YHWH, rather than speak it, they spoke "Adonai."Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
They are interesting prohibitions.
The prohibition against graven images applies to "anything in heaven above, or on the earth beneath, or in the waters below," and yet the same book -- Exodus -- records the specifications for the Ark of the Covenant, including graven images of cherubim for the cover.
The prohibition against speaking YHWH is not found in Scripture. (I am skeptical there was a prohibition against writing it. If there were, it would not occur in Scripture, but it does.) I've always been a bit bemused by the fact that I AM was very explicit in revealing His name to Moses, and told Him,
And yet at some point they became reverently afraid to actually "call" Him by that name. When they read the Scriptures and came to YHWH, rather than speak it, they spoke "Adonai."
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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