Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Representations and depictions of the deity

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    What sources are you citing?
    Read any authoritative or accredited historical work charting the rise of the cross in Christianity. It's all there.

    Other than that, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Hippolytus among others. The Jewish Encyclopedia, John Stott's The Cross of Christ (primarily the 1st chapter) and this article from the Biblical Archaeological Society this summer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Markus River
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Finally remembered the name of the movie - "Dogma." I'm fairly sure the statue was purpose crafted for the show.
    IIRC the Buddy Christ figure was conceived by a committee formed by Cardinal Ignatius Glick, with a mandate to brighten up the rather dour persona of the catholic church. The biggest joke was having the Cardinal played by the late George Carlin, who was known as an outspoken atheist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Earliest evidence is in the second century, and becoming more widespread throughout the third until it was basically the universal symbol in the fourth century[1]
    What sources are you citing?

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
    When did the church start openly displaying crosses?
    Earliest evidence is in the second century, and becoming more widespread throughout the third until it was basically the universal symbol in the fourth century[1]

    H_A presents one of the popular theories for why it wasn't used initially, but there are others including because it is gruesome. The simple fact is that we don't know why it wasn't adopted earlier or why it was adopted at all. Theories, yes. But nothing approaching certainty.





    1. at least in the orthodox Church. I really don't know about such groups as the Copts, or Assyrian Christian Church.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    The cross was not depicted because crucifixion was such a shameful death reserved for the lowest orders in society.
    When did the church start openly displaying crosses?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    Perilously. It's like why risk it huh?

    I also read somewhere that back in the formative years of Christianity that Christians didn't go around displaying the cross, as in pendants and such.
    The cross was not depicted because crucifixion was such a shameful death reserved for the lowest orders in society.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    I believe tabby already noted the prohibition in Ex 20:4 is clarified in the next verse, 20:5 -- The prohibition is against making such images *for the purpose of worshiping them*. This is why even things like "icons" are not forbidden in and of themselves. (FTR, I do have issues with those faiths that "venerate" the icons. I understand the premise that they are showing "respect" for those things which the icons "represent," but to me that's perilously fine hair-splitting.)
    Perilously. It's like why risk it huh?

    I also read somewhere that back in the formative years of Christianity that Christians didn't go around displaying the cross, as in pendants and such.

    Leave a comment:


  • NorrinRadd
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    How do you reconcile this?
    I believe tabby already noted the prohibition in Ex 20:4 is clarified in the next verse, 20:5 -- The prohibition is against making such images *for the purpose of worshiping them*. This is why even things like "icons" are not forbidden in and of themselves. (FTR, I do have issues with those faiths that "venerate" the icons. I understand the premise that they are showing "respect" for those things which the icons "represent," but to me that's perilously fine hair-splitting.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    They are interesting prohibitions.

    The prohibition against graven images applies to "anything in heaven above, or on the earth beneath, or in the waters below," and yet the same book -- Exodus -- records the specifications for the Ark of the Covenant, including graven images of cherubim for the cover.
    How do you reconcile this?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    As DC keeps pointing out you regularly engage in the same sort of slovenly writing and thinking.

    Matthew 7:3-5 O Hypocrite.
    I think you meant to type CD.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I'll type this really slow in hopes you can follow along.

    Never said that Wilson was either.

    What I said is that Wilson listed several in his book.

    What is so hard about that to understand?
    No what you wrote was that "A bit outdated but not inaccurate. Everything from the pyramids to the ruins of Great Zimbabwe have been credited to everyone but the indigenous people by European explorers and archeologists for generations -- and some on the fringe still do"

    I asked for the names of those "European explorers and archaeologists" who have made that claim concerning the pyramids.

    You ignored that request and instead recommended I look at Wilson's lunatic fringe work, while modifying your first emphatic pronouncement whereby "Everything" had been dismissed the work of indigenous peoples "by European explorers and archeologists for generations" to "archaeologists and Egyptianologists who he says provide support to his notions." [My emphasis] And you finally reduced the entire thing to one medieval site.

    Hence from your initial sweeping generalisation that "Everything from the pyramids to the ruins of Great Zimbabwe have been credited to everyone but the indigenous people by European explorers and archeologists for generations " we ended up with just Great Zimbabwe.

    And as I have also pointed out if you know Wilson cites "several in his book" why are you unable to type out a few names?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronson
    replied
    It is enough to say, Eurocentrism is a long-standing viewpoint that is on the way out (especially in the US). When I was a tyke, US history was taught as nearly 100% from the viewpoint of Europeans and European descent. That era is gone..

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post



    However, in his reply to my question rogue06 shifted his position from that initial definitive statement where "Everything" [my emphasis] including the pyramids had "been credited to everyone but the indigenous people by European explorers and archeologists for generations" to something less emphatic.
    Correction: "had"

    Libraries are wonderful things.

    I hate to admit it but it has been awhile since I stopped by my branch. I did so last week only to find a note on the door saying it closed in September 2019 and I have to now go to the relatively nearby one instead

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    It is erroneous and is an excuse for slovenly writing and thinking.
    As DC keeps pointing out you regularly engage in the same sort of slovenly writing and thinking.

    Matthew 7:3-5 O Hypocrite.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    I asked for the names of archaeologists and Egyptologists in support of what you initially alleged ""Everything from the pyramids to the ruins of Great Zimbabwe have been credited to everyone but the indigenous people by European explorers and archeologists for generations ." [My emphasis]

    You gave me a work by Wilson who was neither. I simply pointed out that what you had provided was not what I requested.
    I'll type this really slow in hopes you can follow along.

    Never said that Wilson was either.

    What I said is that Wilson listed several in his book.

    What is so hard about that to understand?

    Leave a comment:

Related Threads

Collapse

Topics Statistics Last Post
Started by tabibito, 05-12-2022, 10:42 PM
42 responses
299 views
0 likes
Last Post tabibito  
Started by Alien, 03-31-2022, 02:43 PM
1,993 responses
10,796 views
0 likes
Last Post little_monkey  
Started by rstrats, 02-13-2021, 12:23 PM
59 responses
512 views
0 likes
Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
Working...
X