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Representations and depictions of the deity

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  • Representations and depictions of the deity

    A recent thread on the Civics board dealt with a pietà Mama that shows a black Madonna and her crucified son, along with the comment by the artist that the son is George Floyd. While I can understand the ire and concern at the Christ being represented by a black criminal it was a comment from the linked article in that thread that was particularly amusing.

    A student being interviewed at the college stated that “nobody should be portrayed as Jesus except” Jesus himself." [https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/11/...ashington-dc/]

    That led to my thinking about representations and depictions of the deity per se. Should the deity ever be depicted in any form? And does that include impersonations of the man by actors?

    Certainly over the centuries opposing Christian groups have engaged in deadly clashes over issues pertaining to iconography in general.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

  • #2
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    A student being interviewed at the college stated that “nobody should be portrayed as Jesus except” Jesus himself." [https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/11/...ashington-dc/]
    I found that assertion somewhat amusing myself.

    That led to my thinking about representations and depictions of the deity per se. Should the deity ever be depicted in any form? And does that include impersonations of the man by actors?

    Certainly over the centuries opposing Christian groups have engaged in deadly clashes over issues pertaining to iconography in general.
    I have reservations about such depictions in "worship space." Elsewhere, there are ordinarily no problems. One of my favourites:

    Buddy Christ.jpg

    But that's probably because I liked the film.
    Last edited by tabibito; 11-27-2021, 06:51 AM.
    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      I found that assertion somewhat amusing myself.


      I have reservations about such depictions in "worship space." Elsewhere, there are ordinarily no problems. One of my favourites:

      Buddy Christ.jpg

      But that's probably because I liked the film.
      Yup. Except I wasn't a big fan of the movie.

      Depending on the time and location people have generally represented Jesus as being "one of us" with Eastern Asian Christians depicting him as looking like He is Eastern Asian, Africans depicting Him as sub-Saharan African in appearance, Native Americans and Hispanics as someone who looks like them etc.

      If it helps someone better relate with Him, I don't see the problem.

      And of course there are exceptions such as the various black Madonnas (with baby Christ) such as those of Częstochowa and Montserrat.



      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd prefer Jesus to look swarthy and Middle Eastern, more or less. I'd like realism. Of course, I'm probably influenced somewhat by my reaction against the traditional movie depictions of a light-haired, blue-eyed, Euro-looking Jesus, and against the relatively recent and truly wack notion that Jesus was black.
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Federalist.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Let's go, Brandon

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          I'd prefer Jesus to look swarthy and Middle Eastern, more or less. I'd like realism. .
          More like this but with a longer beard?

          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            More like this but with a longer beard?

            IIRC, he was an Egyptian although he claimed to be Palestinian

            This was posited a few years back as a "likely" rendition.

            Interestingly, it has been traditional since pretty much the beginning to depict or describe Jesus as being beardless which would be unlikely given the society and culture of which he was a part of. I suspect that might be some later Gentile sensibilities sneaking in.

            This was the picture my grandmother always packed first when we would move, and unpack and put up before anything else was done (she put this little broken handled tack hammer in her purse to make sure that was the case).

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              I found that assertion somewhat amusing myself.
              Indeed given we have no idea what the man may have looked like. I have often thought Bin Laden could have made a good Jesus - albeit the wrong faith - but he was a Semite

              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              I have reservations about such depictions in "worship space." Elsewhere, there are ordinarily no problems.
              I assume by "worship space" you are referring to churches and other religious buildings?

              The depictions of course can lead to travesties - with Jesus having blonde hair that looks as if it has been professionally styled in some manner, blue eyes, and a spotless white robe.

              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #8
                The painting of Jesus knocking on the door...That was on my grandmothers wall as well. It was a genre that helped to create a comfortable home for many people of that generation.

                The small statue that Tabibito posted...some may see that as sarcastic and irreverent. I would bet that the artist probably meant for it to be. But i'll bet that there are people in this world somewhere who would enshrine that figure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  Indeed given we have no idea what the man may have looked like. I have often thought Bin Laden could have made a good Jesus - albeit the wrong faith - but he was a Semite.
                  I would have trouble with portraying misbehaving people as Jesus, but the physical type does seem a good match.

                  I assume by "worship space" you are referring to churches and other religious buildings?
                  What might be termed the chapel itself, not the associated structures. But then I have a preference for the "chapel" to be unadorned - not even a cross. If the socialising areas have as much adornment as suits the congregation, I feel no discomfort. (can't speak for others.)

                  The depictions of course can lead to travesties - with Jesus having blonde hair that looks as if it has been professionally styled in some manner, blue eyes, and a spotless white robe.
                  No problem with that from my point of view - nor with Asian or Black African, nor any indigenous group. Jesus' was ethnically Jewish, but no insult is offered in portraying him as a person that the locals can relate to.
                  1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                    The painting of Jesus knocking on the door...That was on my grandmothers wall as well. It was a genre that helped to create a comfortable home for many people of that generation.
                    I'd suggest this is a better version. At least Holman Hunt had some talent.





                    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                    The small statue that Tabibito posted...some may see that as sarcastic and irreverent. I would bet that the artist probably meant for it to be. But i'll bet that there are people in this world somewhere who would enshrine that figure.
                    You can have it on the dash.


                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                      I would have trouble with portraying misbehaving people as Jesus
                      Pontius Pilate might have had a different take on that!

                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      , but the physical type does seem a good match.
                      Both were Semites.

                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                      What might be termed the chapel itself, not the associated structures. But then I have a preference for the "chapel" to be unadorned - not even a cross.
                      So nothing in the sacred space? I understand.

                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      No problem with that from my point of view - nor with Asian or Black African, nor any indigenous group. Jesus' was ethnically Jewish, but no insult is offered in portraying him as a person that the locals can relate to.
                      That was demonstrated rather well by researchers from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 2018.

                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                        The painting of Jesus knocking on the door...That was on my grandmothers wall as well. It was a genre that helped to create a comfortable home for many people of that generation.

                        The small statue that Tabibito posted...some may see that as sarcastic and irreverent. I would bet that the artist probably meant for it to be. But i'll bet that there are people in this world somewhere who would enshrine that figure.
                        Finally remembered the name of the movie - "Dogma." I'm fairly sure the statue was purpose crafted for the show.


                        ETA - Reading the label on the pic, seems I should have read it before I made the post.
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Indeed given we have no idea what the man may have looked like. I have often thought Bin Laden could have made a good Jesus - albeit the wrong faith - but he was a Semite

                          I assume by "worship space" you are referring to churches and other religious buildings?

                          The depictions of course can lead to travesties - with Jesus having blonde hair that looks as if it has been professionally styled in some manner, blue eyes, and a spotless white robe.
                          There is biblical basis for the latter. For instance:


                          Scripture Verse: Mark 9:3

                          and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one on earth could bleach them.

                          © Copyright Original Source


                          Scripture Verse: Luke 9:29

                          And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            More like this but with a longer beard?

                            Pretty much, yeah.
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                            Beige Federalist.

                            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                            Let's go, Brandon

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              There is biblical basis for the latter. For instance:


                              Scripture Verse: Mark 9:3

                              and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one on earth could bleach them.

                              © Copyright Original Source


                              Scripture Verse: Luke 9:29

                              And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              Yeah, but that's not His typical earthly form. Seems like it may be a preview of His then-future glorified state, or as much of such as can be safely perceived by mortal eyes.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Federalist.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Let's go, Brandon

                              Comment

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