Originally posted by eider
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Bethany Bethphage: It would be normal to say that a person went through Albury Wodonga en route to Wagga Wagga even if that person starts the journey from Melbourne, despite the fact that the person will pass through Wodonga before getting to Albury - it is simply a standard usage pattern. But contrary to the confident assertions about the location of Bethphage, no-one is certain of its exact location anyway. Way too much confidence placed on conjecture for this argument to be viable (on the basis of current knowledge).
Sidon to Galilee via the Decapolis: The return trip might be the equivalent of going from London to Paris via Hamburg, but no more than that - more likely via Amsterdam. According to Mark, Jesus went from Galilee to the region of Tyre which includes Sidon (Mark doesn't mention the route, so it is reasonable to assume he took the most common paths), spent some time in the region, and went from Sidon to the Galilee via the Decapolis: working a circuit seems perfectly normal conduct for an itinerant preacher. In the ordinary course, mention of the route taken is likely to indicate that there was a detour.
IOW, this is not much of a mystery.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnd there we have it folks. They were against the outrages of the Priesthood and Temple. IOW, reformers.
No evidence for the claim that they were, as claimed, "progressive socialists."The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by eider View PostYou think this is trolling?
And enemy of Jesus?
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYup - He wasn't setting up a socialist government, or in any way endorsing one.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYears and years ago this came up in Bible class and the minister then pointed out that the main road from Jericho to Jerusalem bypasses Bethany and Bethpage, but that it also goes by Mount Olivet where several key events in Jesus' ministry took place. IOW, Jesus frequented Mount Olivet and if he did so then it would have been rather easy for him to continue on through Bethphage then Bethany and into Jerusalem.
IOW, this is not much of a mystery.
As Helms [a literary critic and English professor] goes on to note in the quote provided by Kirby, "However, the important location is the Mount of Olives; typology, not history, is at work: here."
.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYears and years ago this came up in Bible class and the minister then pointed out that the main road from Jericho to Jerusalem bypasses Bethany and Bethpage, but that it also goes by Mount Olivet where several key events in Jesus' ministry took place. IOW, Jesus frequented Mount Olivet and if he did so then it would have been rather easy for him to continue on through Bethphage then Bethany and into Jerusalem.
IOW, this is not much of a mystery.
19:29 When He approached Bethphage and Bethany ( βηθσφαγη και βηθανιαν), near the mount that is called Olivet, He sent two of the disciples
Compared with Mark:
11:1 As they *approached Jerusalem, at Bethphage and Bethany, (βηθσφαγη και βηθανιαν) near the Mount of Olives, He *sent two of His disciples,
No mystery at all - well, how the story (that this record somehow supports the idea that Mark didn't know the geography) ever gained any traction IS a mystery.
No certainty attaches to the proposed site for Bethphage.
The story that there is an error is built upon a solid foundation of questionable assumptions.
If the site is correct, which of the two would be the first passed through depends on whether the traveller was approaching from the east or the north, with Jericho's location making either approach viable.
And yes, it does not seem that Bethany was not on the main route, though Bethphage may have been. However, early(ish) report has Bethphage as a small collection of houses to either side of the road, so Bethany may have simply been provided as a landmark. In any event, the two seem to have been separated by less than a kilometre.
Hypatia_Alexandria :Who is the regius professor of divinity that you referred to?Last edited by tabibito; 10-27-2021, 07:59 AM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
No one has, as yet, suggested that this is "a mystery". The fact remains that Goodacre, Winn, Nineham and even Cranfield writing in the late 1950s, acknowledge that the anonymous author of Mark's gospel had little first hand knowledge of the geography of the region.
As Helms [a literary critic and English professor] goes on to note in the quote provided by Kirby, "However, the important location is the Mount of Olives; typology, not history, is at work: here."
.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by eider View PostReally? Brothers (and Sisters) often share inheritances ....
What is your point?
Originally posted by eider View PostThe Baptist:
Luke {3:11} He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
Moses:-
Deuteronomy {15:11} .................. Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
Jesus:
Mark , {10:23} And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt appears that their "acknowledge[ment]" that Mark "had little first hand knowledge of the geography of the region" falls flat when you look at the evidence.
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostMaybe there is a reason that nobody talks much about their "acknowledge[ment]" these days.
."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
I stand by what I have written. There was no progressive socialism in first century CE Palestine [or indeed anywhere else in the ancient world].
But my opinion is that The Baptist and Jesus (who you might not believe in) certainly wanted to end the oppressive, greedy, hypocritical, corrupt Priesthood and Temple practices.... hence what they said and did. Since I think that they failed in their attempts you can feel comfortable in your standpoint.
I'm simply telling that they most certainly tried, and thus were progressive socialists.
Can you understand that?
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt appears that their "acknowledge[ment]" that Mark "had little first hand knowledge of the geography of the region" falls flat when you look at the evidence. Maybe there is a reason that nobody talks much about their "acknowledge[ment]" these days.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnd there we have it folks. They were against the outrages of the Priesthood and Temple. IOW, reformers.
No evidence for the claim that they were, as claimed, "progressive socialists."
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