Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Jerusalem, Judea.... that's where a lot of the action was.


    No it wasn't ......!
    They went down to Jerusalem that last week in an attempt to win the support they needed.. that once, during that one year.

    I don't believe G-John's to-ing and fro-ing over three years.

    But what you believe is your call.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      You don't even have to stretch it that much. The parable of the talents shows that Jesus clearly believed that those who work hard to increase their wealth should be rewarded at the expense of those who lack an entrepreneurial spirit.
      Your usual rubbish, MM?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by eider View Post

        No it wasn't ......!
        They went down to Jerusalem that last week in an attempt to win the support they needed.. that once, during that one year.

        I don't believe G-John's to-ing and fro-ing over three years.

        But what you believe is your call.
        A LOT of what is important to Christianity happened in Jerusalem, both OT and NT.

        "Crucified, buried and risen again" did not happen in Galilee.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by eider View Post

          Your usual rubbish, MM?
          For the record, I was being tongue in cheek. The parable of the talents is a metaphor and not intended as literal financial advice any more than the parable of the sower and seeds is a treatise on gardening.

          But the fact that you dismissed it as rubbish when I essentially employed the same style of argument and scriptural interpretation as you is certainly interesting.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by eider View Post

            HA, you do not seem to comprehend that I think G-Mark was a fairly accurate account of that year (with Christian fiddlings).
            Without any corroborative extraneous contemporary evidence that remains purely your belief, and nothing else.
            Originally posted by eider View Post
            Matthew and Luke wrote interesting accounts with quite a lot of foundation and detail within them.
            Sucb as?


            Originally posted by eider View Post

            HA....! You've got your ideas the wrong way round.
            I've already told you that the author of Mark didn't live around, didn't have intimate knowledge of and didn't often travel to ------- Judea!
            By his writing he knew about Galilee and the North.
            Again all this purely your opinion you cannot know of any of that. It is generally accepted that the text of Mark was composed in Rome and for a gentile congregation.


            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by eider View Post

              CP probably thinks that the Galilee was full of Romans.
              That 'Roman Centurion' was (probably) either retired or a senior Jewish official.
              There is no reason why this character [if one actually existed] for not being a member of the Herodian army. As I noted, it was modelled on Roman lines.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                You don't even have to stretch it that much. The parable of the talents shows that Jesus clearly believed that those who work hard to increase their wealth should be rewarded at the expense of those who lack an entrepreneurial spirit.
                The parable of the talents shows what Jesus thought of folks who hoard their wealth out of sight.
                So Jesus hated mammon misers.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by eider View Post

                  The parable of the talents shows what Jesus thought of folks who hoard their wealth out of sight.
                  So Jesus hated mammon misers.
                  And that those who have enriched themselves should be made even richer at the expense of others, right?
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by eider View Post

                    No Sparko......... no semantics, simply reading what is there.
                    And of course, feeding thousands of people for nothing can't fit your very poor analogy, trying to show the reverse of my posts.
                    In fact you're going to have to struggle somewhat to stray from my selection of verses throughout this thread, showing that Jesus was for Social Progress (of course Jesus was).

                    Sometime, you must explain how strong Conservative values fit with 'what Jesus said and did'.
                    Have you heard of quote-mining? You have take that to a whole new level with this idea of Jesus being a "progressive" and a "socialist"

                    If you really aren't trolling then you are a complete moron when it comes to the bible, so I will leave you to your delusions. I have found it is not worth my time to argue with someone who is so wrong as you are. It's a waste of time.


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                      Have you heard of quote-mining? You have take that to a whole new level with this idea of Jesus being a "progressive" and a "socialist"

                      If you really aren't trolling then you are a complete moron when it comes to the bible, so I will leave you to your delusions. I have found it is not worth my time to argue with someone who is so wrong as you are. It's a waste of time.
                      I think he's playing.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        I think he's playing.
                        I honestly can't figure him out. I think he starts out sincere but then seamlessly transitions to trolling after his arguments get blown out of the water (which happens in just about every thread he posts in).
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Looking at the textual evidence in Mark various academics have reached the conclusion that the simplest solution, as Nineham notes, is that "the evangelist was not directly acquainted with Palestine". We also have to remember the reasons behind these texts being written.
                          Looking at the textual evidence in Mark might lead to the conclusion that he wasn't giving a geography lesson, or maybe he was working backwards from Jerusalem. The purported error results in Jesus being in two places (Bethphage and Bethany) when he sends his disciples to commandeer a donkey , a problem that your commentators fail to address and in fact have invented. Nor do your commentators address the issue of Luke's failure to correct what they claim is a clear error** - the simplest explanation for Luke's failure to amend the error is that there isn't one. The simplest explanation for your commentators' assessments of Mark's account is that they don't understand it.

                          {**Always assuming that Luke did in fact draw on Mark's account, rather than the other way around.}
                          Last edited by tabibito; 10-28-2021, 12:09 PM.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            Looking at the textual evidence in Mark might lead to the conclusion that he wasn't giving a geography lesson, or maybe he was working backwards from Jerusalem. The purported error results in Jesus being in two places (Bethphage and Bethany) when he sends his disciples to commandeer a donkey , a problem that your commentators fail to address and in fact have invented. Nor do your commentators address the issue of Luke's failure to correct what they claim is a clear error - the simplest explanation for Luke's failure to amend the error is that there isn't one.
                            Given that it is generally accepted that Luke and Matthew used a version of Mark and that both writers probably had as much local knowledge as the author of Mark, why would he?

                            As Helms notes in subsequent comments:

                            However, the important location is the Mount of Olives; typology, not history, is at work: here. The typological fiction continues on the basis of Zech. 9:9 LXX: Rejoice greatly, 0 daughter of Sion; proclaim it aloud, 0 daughter of Jerusalem; behold, the king is coming to thee, just. and a Saviour [sōzōn] "saving,; he is meek and riding on an ass, and a young foal [pōlon neon a "new (unridden) foal"]. [...] Matthew wants so much for Jesus to fulfll Zech. 9:9 (as the evangelist understands the verse) that he invents a second donkey: "You will at once find a donkey tethered with her foal beside her, untie them, and bring them to me. . . . the disciples went and did as Jesus had directed, and brought the donkey and her foal; they laid their cloaks on them and Jesus mounted . (Matt. 21:2, 6- 7)
                            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 10-28-2021, 12:23 PM.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              Looking at the textual evidence in Mark might lead to the conclusion that he wasn't giving a geography lesson, or maybe he was working backwards from Jerusalem. The purported error results in Jesus being in two places (Bethphage and Bethany) when he sends his disciples to commandeer a donkey , a problem that your commentators fail to address and in fact have invented. Nor do your commentators address the issue of Luke's failure to correct what they claim is a clear error** - the simplest explanation for Luke's failure to amend the error is that there isn't one. The simplest explanation for your commentators' assessments of Mark's account is that they don't understand it.

                              {**Always assuming that Luke did in fact draw on Mark's account, rather than the other way around.}
                              Not to mention the fact that for the proposed argument to carry any weight, we would have to accept the dubious premise that a scholar today is more familiar with ancient geography and the manner in which it would have been commonly referenced than somebody who was actually alive at the time.
                              Last edited by Mountain Man; 10-28-2021, 12:38 PM.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                Given that it is generally accepted that Luke and Matthew used a version of Mark and that both writers probably had as much local knowledge as the author of Mark, why would he?

                                As Helms notes in subsequent comments:

                                However, the important location is the Mount of Olives; typology, not history, is at work: here. The typological fiction continues on the basis of Zech. 9:9 LXX: Rejoice greatly, 0 daughter of Sion; proclaim it aloud, 0 daughter of Jerusalem; behold, the king is coming to thee, just. and a Saviour [sōzōn] "saving,; he is meek and riding on an ass, and a young foal [pōlon neon a "new (unridden) foal"]. [...] Matthew wants so much for Jesus to fulfll Zech. 9:9 (as the evangelist understands the verse) that he invents a second donkey: "You will at once find a donkey tethered with her foal beside her, untie them, and bring them to me. . . . the disciples went and did as Jesus had directed, and brought the donkey and her foal; they laid their cloaks on them and Jesus mounted . (Matt. 21:2, 6- 7)
                                What proof is there that the presence of a second donkey is an invention?
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
                                14 responses
                                43 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
                                21 responses
                                129 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
                                78 responses
                                411 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
                                45 responses
                                303 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X