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Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

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  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Assuming that the location of Bethphage has been correctly identified, coming to Bethphage from the north (necessary if Bethphage is the first to be reached) would place Jerusalem on the right, and Bethany on the left - that is, to get to Bethany on the way to Jerusalem, the traveller would have to detour. Approaching from the east, the traveller would reach Bethany first. Jericho is to the north and east of Bethany, so it would depend on whether the traveller first went south from Jericho and then turned west (reach Bethany first), or west from Jericho and turned south (reach Bethphage first.)

    But it does not seem that Mark intended to provide an itinerary. What does a first century reader do with a map? How would a first century writer present the place names in accord with a map? Look at that map as it would have been presented in the first century - the first century writer would have read the map from top to bottom, as we would in like circumstances - but - the first century map had east at the top, not north. Maps were oriented (note the significance of that word) for the rising sun until the compass became a thing. Reading in first century map order, which town comes first?
    In the whole gospel of Mark Jesus and disciples only undertook that journey once, that year.
    Hence why they spent the day 'looking around' on Palm Sunday...... It was all still an amazing spectacle of a place for them.
    Hence any errors in Mark's description....... if any.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      I can understand what you have written but you do not seem to comprehend that the gospels should not be regarded as overly accurate historical records. Their internal narratives cannot be assumed to be entirely as they are presented. These texts were to preach and teach. They were not intended to give a dispassionate historical [as we understand the term] account of events.
      HA, you do not seem to comprehend that I think G-Mark was a fairly accurate account of that year (with Christian fiddlings).
      Matthew and Luke wrote interesting accounts with quite a lot of foundation and detail within them.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        Mark 7.31.

        Randel Helms writes : "Anyone approaching Jerusalem from Jericho would come first to Bethany and then Bethphage, not the reverse.

        Adam Winn writes ......... various issues with the author's apparent lack of knowledge of the region.
        HA....! You've got your ideas the wrong way round.
        I've already told you that the author of Mark didn't live around, didn't have intimate knowledge of and didn't often travel to ------- Judea!
        By his writing he knew about Galilee and the North.

        So Helms and Winn were right about the single journey South...... Big Deal!
        They really did waste their ink, HA.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          No it wouldn't. The collection of the direct tax passed from the Herodian officials to the procurator and his staff. The collection of the indirect taxes was farmed to the despised "publicans" mentioned in the Gospels. These were Jewish tax-farmers who purchased the tax-collecting concessions.

          Bearing in mind that at this period in Judaea there was, a comparatively small auxiliary army presence. Galilee had its own army modelled on Roman lines - hence the account in Matthew concerning the centurion in Capernaum. The character would not have been a Roman centurion.
          CP probably thinks that the Galilee was full of Romans.
          That 'Roman Centurion' was (probably) either retired or a senior Jewish official.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            By this point, dear Hypoxia_Atrocity, I have pretty well determined our dear friend is not really being serious, so I was going off script.

            Y'all have fun.
            I just hope you've learned that Galilee was not full of Romans.
            It was full of Jewish authorities and any forces...... under Antipas who had real issues with any Roman interference.
            Antipas sent out to bring the Baptist in because the Baptist was within Antipas's borders, Perea.
            Otherwise (on the West Bank) it would have been Romans who went out for him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              He was essentially saying to just give the government what they want instead of making a fuss about it. That is not a ringing endorsement.
              This.^

              He avoided earthly political controversies.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Nationalist.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                This.^

                He avoided earthly political controversies.
                What?
                Have you read what the Baptist said about the Temple and Priesthood? And what he was doing?
                Have you read about What Jesus and his disciples did in the Temple, and the things he said?

                He was slap bang central in the middle of words and actions against a corrupted, greedy, hypocritical leadership.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  OK, I like you - you're weird, and a bit of a , I think, but you seem like a good guy.

                  I'm just not taking you seriously on this anymore. I think you're having a little too much fun.

                  Not that there's anything wrong with that!

                  Carry on!
                  We don't take each other too seriously, it seems.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by eider View Post

                    We don't take each other too seriously, it seems.
                    And that's OK!
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by eider View Post
                      I just hope you've learned that Galilee was not full of Romans....
                      Jerusalem, Judea.... that's where a lot of the action was.



                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        I've been noticing that, too --- I have never come across ANYBODY else referring to John simply as "the Baptist". :shug:
                        I've heard it before, most memorably (for me at least) in the Petra song "What's In A Name?" which includes the line "The Baptist called Him Lamb of God who takes away our sins".
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          I've heard it before, most memorably (for me at least) in the Petra song "What's In A Name?" which includes the line "The Baptist called Him Lamb of God who takes away our sins".
                          And all this time I thought this was about me.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            Funny thing -- my Dad was Army (Army Air Corps, then Air Force) and we moved a lot. For a time when I was young, we lived in Ohio, very near the shores of Lake Erie.
                            I learned that "Lake Erie is NORTH".
                            That served me very well, as my whole geographic reference was "Lake Erie is North". Wherever I was, I just had to think which direction Lake Erie was - that was North!

                            Then we moved back to Texas and ..... my sense of direction needed SERIOUS recalibration.
                            But even in Texas, Lake Erie is still to the North.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              But even in Texas, Lake Erie is still to the North.
                              Yeah, I just can't see or smell it anymore.

                              (And it's actually North East)
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                                Gee I can play semantics too. Jesus took 2 fish and multiplied them. That's PROFIT! Jesus was a Capitalist! That is basically how you are arguing Jesus was "progressive" and a "socialist" -- by playing semantic games.
                                You don't even have to stretch it that much. The parable of the talents shows that Jesus clearly believed that those who work hard to increase their wealth should be rewarded at the expense of those who lack an entrepreneurial spirit.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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