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Mary's Room

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Cool.

    Windows 10 apparently has color blindness correction built in too. You could try it:

    https://www.bruceb.com/2017/11/look-...lor-blindness/

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      Cool.

      Windows 10 apparently has color blindness correction built in too. You could try it:

      https://www.bruceb.com/2017/11/look-...lor-blindness/
      I actually have an appointment coming up with my eye doctor who uses that supertechincal eye examination thing that looks inside your eyeball and maps your eye...
      I had Lasik a BUNCH of years ago, and no longer wear glasses (had worn them all my life since I can remember) and my "near" vision seems a bit blurry.

      I don't ever even think about color blindness, as I guess I've just adapted and don't really know what's missing.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

        So this experiment is basically about "qualia" right, Seer? That there is something about experience that can't be known by book learning?
        Yes, it is something that can not be known by science. Even if you knew everything about the process of vision, the personal experience of color is something other.

        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #19
          Originally posted by seer View Post

          Yes, it is something that can not be known by science. Even if you knew everything about the process of vision, the personal experience of color is something other.
          and how do we even know that what colors we see is what others see?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            and how do we even know that what colors we see is what others see?
            We don't, what I have been see as blue all my life you may have been seeing as green.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #21
              So is it actually learning something? Is that an epistemologically correct term? So Mary sees color for the time and knows something new. Can Mary now share this new knowledge with another mind?


              I guess she could interact with others now in ways she couldn't before.




              Also, if I could ask everyone to answer to the best of their ability :does a sense of place qualify as qualia?


              Comment


              • #22
                A quale is singular of qualia. Someone went to the enth degree in categorizing human experience.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                  So is it actually learning something? Is that an epistemologically correct term? So Mary sees color for the time and knows something new. Can Mary now share this new knowledge with another mind?


                  I guess she could interact with others now in ways she couldn't before.
                  Yes the experience of color is something new to her, as far as sharing, that would be alone the lines of sharing any other subjective experience


                  Also, if I could ask everyone to answer to the best of their ability :does a sense of place qualify as qualia?
                  Any inner subjective experience would qualify.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The emotional aspects of private inner experiences, such as that of a sense of place, is the basis for a common objection to Mary's Room disproving physicalism.




                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                      The emotional aspects of private inner experiences, such as that of a sense of place, is the basis for a common objection to Mary's Room disproving physicalism.
                      How so?

                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        This is a very short article:


                        https://selfawarepatterns.com/2020/0...th-marys-room/


                        What is your objection to the rebuttal made?


                        In essence, Mary's Room is allegedly proving dualism. Would you agree?
                        Last edited by Machinist; 10-22-2021, 11:30 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                          This is a very short article:


                          https://selfawarepatterns.com/2020/0...th-marys-room/


                          What is your objection to the rebuttal made?


                          In essence, Mary's Room is allegedly proving dualism. Would you agree?
                          Just a note. argument by weblink is not allowed. You need to present the argument in your own words or at least post a summary of the points at the link.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            It's like I know what I want to say, then when I start to type something, it doesn't come out the way I conceptualized it. The article, and the objections in it, just made me think of what it is like to be on the moon. Like there is a qualia of being on the moon...or sense of place.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I am really just exploring ways to ponder qualia this morning...not so much making any arguments.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                                This is a very short article:


                                https://selfawarepatterns.com/2020/0...th-marys-room/


                                What is your objection to the rebuttal made?


                                In essence, Mary's Room is allegedly proving dualism. Would you agree?
                                It could be dualism, at least it would say that subjective experience couldn't be reduced to physicalism. As far as your link, I will check it out later....

                                Here is another way of disproving physicalism I posted for Tass:

                                I can right now taste and smell my mother's meatballs even though she is long dead and the receipt long lost. When I have this experience you certainly can map which parts of my brain light up but what you can't do, is have that experience yourself. And that subjective experience (the actual smell and taste) is beyond science.
                                Last edited by seer; 10-22-2021, 12:32 PM.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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