What would it take for the atheist to believe in God?

[Markus River]

Nobody is forcing you to post here.

Someone has to think of the children, and stop them getting indoctrinated while they're still atheists.

[Markus River]

Last I checked a science degree wasn't necessary to be saved.

I'll defer to you on the whole "being saved" qualifications front, but that aside, so what? Cow Poke seemed really proud to have a christian buddy who - can you believe this- actually believes in the theory of evolution. I mean, OMG! Now presumably, this buddy also believes in all the other scientific theories I offered up as examples, but what about all his other buddies who also believe in the additional examples but feel fully entitled to reject evolution?

What is it about the theory of evolution through natural selection, alone among the pantheon of current scientific theories, that causes christians to clutch their pearls to their heaving bosoms and leave their hearts weakly fluttering, but still claim some perverse credibility by rejecting it?

[Cow Poke]

I'll defer to you on the whole "being saved" qualifications front, but that aside, so what? Cow Poke seemed really proud to have a christian buddy who - can you believe this- actually believes in the theory of evolution. I mean, OMG! Now presumably, this buddy also believes in all the other scientific theories I offered up as examples, but what about all his other buddies who also believe in the additional examples but feel fully entitled to reject evolution?

Wow. There's a whole lot of presumin' goin' on there.

What is it about the theory of evolution through natural selection, alone among the pantheon of current scientific theories, that causes christians to clutch their pearls to their heaving bosoms and leave their hearts weakly fluttering, but still claim some perverse credibility by rejecting it?

You really do have a flair for imagination and drama.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I actually saw it in at least four places when I wanted to see from which dictionary it came from.

Is there any likelihood that you can provide links to those "at least four places"? Or are issues with your short term memory causing problems for you once again?

But beyond that Hypocrite_Alexandria, can you show me where you listed where you got your own definition from

Because there sure looks to be a complete lack of one.

You don't look very carefully do you?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/opinion - see definition 1

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Then there is the saying attributed to Augustine:

"Lord, make me holy, but not now!"

some translations have "good" or "chaste" instead of holy.

You do know that Augustine was attached to the Manichean movement prior to being becoming a Christian priest?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

For the first thousand years, after an admittedly rough start, Christianity had its act together with a uniformity of belief never achieved before or since.

That is a sweeping generalisation and from where are you dating its "rough start"?

[Esther]

Reminds me of this:

After Eden show me a sign.jpg

Romans 1:20 is solid proof enough to know that there is not a living soul who has an excuse to not believe in the existence of a creator God. This does not mean they will believe in the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ and the gospel message of salvation.

[Esther]

Some people seem to forget that fact.



On this issue there is only subjective opinion.




Precisely. That is your belief. Adherents to other religions [particularly the Abrahamic faiths] would make a similar comment as to the validity of their beliefs. So called "revealed religious texts" also play a major part in adherents believing that they and they alone follow the true god.

The fact of the matter is that there is no "right direction" regarding religious beliefs. It is all subjective.

Hence the diversity found in polytheistic cultures of the past.

H_A I'm coming in late on this thread and may have missed something. When it comes to other religions and right directions:

It is all about the identity of a man who walked this earth 2000 years ago. Even unbelieving (non Christian) historians believe there was such a man, that he existed. The question is was he just a man or was he the Son of God? The Son God sent to earth John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his son..." The only book in the world that has the identity of Jesus Christ correct is the the Bible.

How does this work for you as a starting point after Romans 1:20?

[rogue06]

Someone has to think of the children, and stop them getting indoctrinated while they're still atheists.

Even Dawkins concedes that children are naturally religious and it is something one must "grow out" of. So it appears that children need to be indoctrinated into atheism.

[rogue06]

You do know that Augustine was attached to the Manichean movement prior to being becoming a Christian priest?

I likely have forgotten more about Augustine than you know.

That isn't a boast but a simple statement of fact.

[Juvenal]

That is a sweeping generalisation and from where are you dating its "rough start"?

It took centuries for the early Christians to figure out they couldn't keep claiming the authority of an ancient religion stemming from the Jewish monotheism, and worship Jesus, too, at least, not without promoting Jesus to a deity. For them, and especially for Christian Jews, the real hurdle was handling the promotion without breaking the first commandment of Jewish monotheism: thou shalt have one and only one God.

I'd date the "rough start" to the period prior to the first Nicene Council when the essential Christian doctrines were spelled out in the Nicene Creed and Constantine's order of 50 bibles for his church at Constantinople pushed them into regularizing their writings into a canon.

[rogue06]

It took centuries for the early Christians to figure out they couldn't keep claiming the authority of an ancient religion stemming from the Jewish monotheism, and worship Jesus, too, at least, not without promoting Jesus to a deity.

It took centuries for Christians to read John 10:30 "The Father and I are one."? Or any number of similar verses?

Go on then. Pull the other one.

[Cow Poke]

I likely have forgotten more about Augustine than you know.

That isn't a boast but a simple statement of fact.

You're just not as good at Googling.

[Juvenal]

It took centuries for Christians to read John 10:30 "The Father and I are one."? Or any number of similar verses?

Go on then. Pull the other one.

When was the first proposed canon that included John accepted?

[tabibito]

When was the first proposed canon that included John accepted?

The date that the gospel of John was accepted into the canon is not an issue. Paul's declaration that the Christ had in fact been God does predate the supposed time of authorship of the Gospel of John.