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Logic, Therefore God...

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  • Is it possible that something could exist, if it were not identical to itself?

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    • Originally posted by Machinist View Post
      Is it possible that something could exist, if it were not identical to itself?
      Those who don't believe the law of identity is absolute would have to say yes - it is possible. But I would like to see an example...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

        Einstein is the most extensively misattributed speaker on the internet. — Albert Einstein
        But I offered many many of his quotes. You cannot rewrite his words to suit yourself.
        If you think that he believed in complexity over simplicity then 'good-luck' with that.

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        • Originally posted by Machinist View Post
          Just a quick question here:

          when does a thing become a thing? For instance, is my shoe One thing, or a collection of things? Various rubber parts glued to fabric, etc. Also, there are shoestrings, tags, grommets, etc.


          I am asking this with reference to the law that says each thing is identical to itself.
          Maybe you would like to break all down in to it's individual atoms?
          Go further------ break all down to Nucleus and protons, etc?

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          • Originally posted by seer View Post

            Again, why call the whole god? Why use that term? Why not just call it the whole of the physical universe? What distinction or quality does the term god bring to the table?
            It'll be more than just one universe, seer.
            I actually prefer the title 'Deity', but Deists recognise God in everything.
            You do it your way........


            You keep using the word illogical, yet my definition has violated NO law of logic - if you think otherwise show me!!!! All you are doing is asserting your opinion. Which has nothing to do with logic...
            God is creative, rational, moral, aware, knowledgeable, supremely powerful, transcendent and interactive with the universe He created.

            Most of your definition is illogical.
            Take the first characteristic in your sentence....... creative. What we know now shows how illogical that idea is.

            I must go...will complete this later

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            • Originally posted by eider View Post

              Maybe you would like to break all down in to it's individual atoms?
              Go further------ break all down to Nucleus and protons, etc?
              We could. Each thing would still be identical to itself.

              It goes without saying, really. It's quite self evident...that things are what they are.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by eider View Post
                It'll be more than just one universe, seer.
                I actually prefer the title 'Deity', but Deists recognise God in everything.
                You do it your way........
                You still are avoiding the question - why call any of this god? What do you see in the universe that leads you to assume a deity?



                God is creative, rational, moral, aware, knowledgeable, supremely powerful, transcendent and interactive with the universe He created.

                Most of your definition is illogical.
                Take the first characteristic in your sentence....... creative. What we know now shows how illogical that idea is.

                I must go...will complete this later
                You don't just get to assert "illogical" you need to show a violation of the laws of logic.

                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                  We could. Each thing would still be identical to itself.

                  It goes without saying, really. It's quite self evident...that things are what they are.
                  The real question is whether it takes a mind to make it the case that things are what they are.

                  If there was no God, or any other minds, does that mean that "things are what they are" might not be true?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                    The real question is whether it takes a mind to make it the case that things are what they are.

                    If there was no God, or any other minds, does that mean that "things are what they are" might not be true?
                    It seems intuitive that things would still equal themselves. I can't imagine an existence where things are not identical to what they are (even in the absence of any mind). That just seems like the negation of existence itself.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                      It seems intuitive that things would still equal themselves. I can't imagine an existence where things are not identical to what they are (even in the absence of any mind). That just seems like the negation of existence itself.
                      I agree, and that kind of undermines the proof given in the OP.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                        I agree, and that kind of undermines the proof given in the OP.
                        How?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                        • Originally posted by seer View Post

                          How?
                          4. Such propositions are mind dependent.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                            4. Such propositions are mind dependent.
                            It is true that propositions 1, 2 and 3 are mind dependent.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                              It is true that propositions 1, 2 and 3 are mind dependent.
                              Yeah, but I don't believe proposition 4 is referring to propositions 1, 2, and 3.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                                Yeah, but I don't believe proposition 4 is referring to propositions 1, 2, and 3.
                                What else would it be referring to?

                                Comment

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