Logic, Therefore God...

[Stoic]

How is it a contradiction if both things can be true?

Even if it's a true contradiction, it's still a contradiction.

And according to classical logic, there are no true contradictions.

[seer]

Even if it's a true contradiction, it's still a contradiction.

And according to classical logic, there are no true contradictions.

But you don't believe that classic logic is the last word. You believe that a thing can be both true and false. Hence the wall could be both all white and not white.

[Stoic]

But you don't believe that classic logic is the last word.

Not if we agree to use some other logic. But we don't have such an agreement.

You believe that a thing can be both true and false. Hence the wall could be both all white and not white.

The idea that some statements can be true and false does not imply that that particular statement is one of them.

[seer]

Not if we agree to use some other logic. But we don't have such an agreement.

You can't keep hiding about what I believe - this is about what you believe to be the case...

The idea that some statements can be true and false does not imply that that particular statement is one of them.

How would you know? Again, what is the limiting principle? How do you decide?

[Stoic]

You can't keep hiding about what I believe - this is about what you believe to be the case...

What I believe to be the case is that the laws of logic are not absolute. Not that we should change them without good reason.

How would you know? Again, what is the limiting principle? How do you decide?

I would think that at a minimum, you would need a good reason to believe a statement is true, and a good reason to believe that its negation is true.

(Such cases are generally called paradoxes.)

[seer]

What I believe to be the case is that the laws of logic are not absolute. Not that we should change them without good reason.

But you seem to have good reasons to question them.

I would think that at a minimum, you would need a good reason to believe a statement is true, and a good reason to believe that its negation is true.

(Such cases are generally called paradoxes.)

A paradox is generally not an actual contradiction. I'm not sure what a "good reason" is. In other words, I made a statement about the white wall - you can not observe what I'm observing - you can not categorically say that my claim is wrong. The only way you could would depend on the LONC being absolute. If you question that, as you do, then Pandora's box is open, After all "reasons" are quite subjective.

[Stoic]

But you seem to have good reasons to question them.

I have good reasons to question the absoluteness of them.

A paradox is generally not an actual contradiction.

A paradox is not necessarily an actual contradiction, but a true contradiction would necessarily be a paradox.

[eider]

Do you believe that God created the universe?

The universe is a tiny part of the whole....of God. How did the whole get here? Who knows?

Second, size has nothing to do with value. A Swiss mountain is much bigger than my granddaughters - yet they have infinitely more value to me.

......... infinitely more value....to you.
The Swiss mountain and the carbon in your grand-daughters is all stardust, produced in some giant star that went in to supernova, and this tiny solar system born from the within that dust cloud.
Your daughters, you, me, rocks, mountains and forests, all.

So we could have value to God, even though we are less than specks in the Cosmos.

The whole (God) is too vast to be aware of us.

[seer]

The universe is a tiny part of the whole....of God. How did the whole get here? Who knows?

Of what use or importance is your god? Why do you believe it even exists?

......... infinitely more value....to you.
The Swiss mountain and the carbon in your grand-daughters is all stardust, produced in some giant star that went in to supernova, and this tiny solar system born from the within that dust cloud.
Your daughters, you, me, rocks, mountains and forests, all.

That doesn't change my point.

The whole (God) is too vast to be aware of us.

Since your god is not "mindful" it doesn't seem that it is aware of anything...

[seer]

I have good reasons to question the absoluteness of them.

Based on what - actual examples in nature?

[Stoic]

Based on what - actual examples in nature?

Based on the existence of non-classical logic.

[eider]

Of what use or importance is your god? Why do you believe it even exists?

You and I and the tree outside are a part of the whole.
Your toe nail doesn't question your importance, I would think.
It exists because I can perceive it...... it's all around.

That doesn't change my point.

But it did have meaning within mine.

Since your god is not "mindful" it doesn't seem that it is aware of anything...

Oh dear........ If God doesn't mind you it can't possibly mind anything? Is that your view?
Folks ain't that important although I can see why they would want to make their God take notice of them....only them.

My perceptions of God are logical, because I can see, hear, feel, touch and experience part of it all, just a tiny part. But we are seeing much more these days.

[seer]

Based on the existence of non-classical logic.

Again, I asked what do you see in nature? Stoic do you believe for a moment that the sun could both exist and not exist at the same moment. No matter which form of logic you use do you really think that is possible? Really?

[seer]

My perceptions of God are logical, because I can see, hear, feel, touch and experience part of it all, just a tiny part. But we are seeing much more these days.

No, they are not logical, they are based on faith. What makes you think that what you see, hear, feel, touch and experience have anything to do with a god? I'd like to see the logic - not just an assertion.

[eider]

No, they are not logical, they are based on faith. What makes you think that what you see, hear, feel, touch and experience have anything to do with a god? I'd like to see the logic - not just an assertion.

As if you would see the logic of a Deist!
That's a delightful idea!
Are you trying to tell me that everything that you touch, see, hear, experience and feel has nothing to do with God? How illogical!