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Logic, Therefore God...

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  • Logic, Therefore God...

    1. Necessary truths exist.

    2. The law of identity (A=A) is a necessary truth.

    3. Necessary truths are true in all possible worlds.

    4. Such propositions are mind dependent.

    5. Human minds are contingent, they are not necessary in all possible worlds, therefore the propositions they harbor can not traverse all possible worlds..

    6. An eternal transcendent Mind would accommodate necessary truths in all possible worlds.

    7. Therefore an eternal transcendent Mind is necessary for such truths to exist in all possible worlds.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    4. RECOGNIZING such propositions are mind dependent.

    Truth is just a statement that corresponds with reality. Reality exists whether or not any mind recognizes any truths about it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      4. RECOGNIZING such propositions are mind dependent.

      Truth is just a statement that corresponds with reality. Reality exists whether or not any mind recognizes any truths about it.
      Well no, all propositions themselves are mind dependent. A truth is mind dependent. Suns, rocks and gasses may not be mind dependent but truisms are...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        I was thinking that "mind" in #4 was "Transcendent Mind".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Machinist View Post
          I was thinking that "mind" in #4 was "Transcendent Mind".
          It would mean all minds, ours and God's...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post

            Well no, all propositions themselves are mind dependent. A truth is mind dependent. Suns, rocks and gasses may not be mind dependent but truisms are...
            But the reality of what those truths describe exist without any minds to even recognize them. Logic doesn't have an existence by itself, it is merely a language that describes reality. Saying A=A is just language to describe that something that exists is itself. A planet orbiting a star in a galaxy a billion light years away is a planet orbiting a star in a galaxy a billion light years away. That same planet would exist whether there were any minds to come up with the A=A truism or to even know the planet exists. So trueisms are not necessary for reality to exist.
            Last edited by Sparko; 08-30-2021, 10:54 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              2. The law of identity (A=A) is a necessary truth.
              I am not the "I" I was ten minutes ago.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                I am not the "I" I was ten minutes ago.
                So you are not human? If you don't like that use the law of non-contradiction.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  But the reality of what those truths describe exist without any minds to even recognize them. Logic doesn't have an existence by itself, it is merely a language that describes reality. Saying A=A is just language to describe that something that exists is itself. A planet orbiting a star in a galaxy a billion light years away is a planet orbiting a star in a galaxy a billion light years away. That same planet would exist whether there were any minds to come up with the A=A truism or to even know the planet exists. So trueisms are not necessary for reality to exist.
                  Do you believe there are necessary truths that are true in all possible worlds?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    Do you believe there are necessary truths that are true in all possible worlds?
                    As I said, truth is just what we call a statement that conforms to reality. If you say something that it true, it means it corresponds to reality. Reality is what exists and "truth" is just way to describe/talk about that reality. Even if we didn't exist at all, reality would still be here. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean by "necessary truth" ?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "In logic, the law of non-contradiction states that contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time, e. g. the two propositions "p is the case" and "p is not the case" are mutually exclusive. Formally this is expressed as the tautology"


                      " I am not the I I was ten minutes ago" ...there may be some tampering here with the senses of " I".

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                      • #12
                        Transitive Identity!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          OK got it. He's still a human.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            As I said, truth is just what we call a statement that conforms to reality. If you say something that it true, it means it corresponds to reality. Reality is what exists and "truth" is just way to describe/talk about that reality. Even if we didn't exist at all, reality would still be here. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean by "necessary truth" ?
                            When I say a necessary truth it means it can not be otherwise, the law of non-contradiction for instance. This logical law would be true in any possible world. And since I am a Christian I would say that these truths existed before a , or any, physical universe existed. They depend on the Mind of God, not physical conditions.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                              OK got it. He's still a human.
                              And one quality of being human is that a human is subject to change. But still human. Unless he is dead - then he is a dead human, or dust.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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