Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Is Fideism So Bad?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post

    Scripture Verse: John 20

    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    Nope
    So then. Thomas was given the sign that he asked for.
    And by way of demonstrating that your interpretation of the text of Matt 12:39 is flawed, we have a wealth of information about what a faithful generation can expect when it asks for a sign: Acts 4:29-30 for example -

    29 “And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence,
    30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”

    You declare yourself a teacher, but you can't rightly divide the scriptures.
    Last edited by tabibito; 08-19-2021, 05:54 PM.
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      So then. Thomas was given the sign that he asked for.
      And clearly condemned for asking for it. Or are you pretending (lying) as if "doubting Thomas" is being held up as an example to be followed?

      And by way of demonstrating that your interpretation of the text of Matt 12:39 is flawed, we have a wealth of information about what a faithful generation can expect when it asks for a sign: Acts 4:29-30 for example -

      29 “And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence,
      30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”
      They didn't ask for signs for themselves but to prove that their preaching came from God in the context of facing persecution. "Take note of their threats and give us confidence". This does nothing to disprove the fact that Jesus said the wicked "seek after" a sign. They were not condemned as unworthy of a sign, they were condemned for seeking it. Just as Thomas was. Learn to read.

      You declare yourself a teacher, but you can't rightly divide the scriptures.
      Where did I declare myself a teacher? And "rightly divide" is a popular catchphrase among charlatans on YouTube recently who teach that the words of Jesus were "just for the Jews" while Christians should only concern themselves with Paul. Thank you for exposing yourself for me.

      Comment


      • #63
        I don't recall anyone saying that it was appropriate to ask for signs and wonders for no more than personal benefit, but if you want to believe that a person should not pray for release from sins and healing, go for it.
        sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by seer View Post

          yes but the focus was the bible, not apologetic arguments. I'm asking this sincerely - did the Apostles or the writers on the NT use apologetic arguments?
          A lot! Jesus used signs he was performing as evidence for his claims (John 10:37-38). And Luke writes:

          "He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:3)

          And the apostles claimed to be eyewitnesses, as the ground for people's belief:

          "For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1:16)

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            I thought you were arguing against Darfius' claims. It seems that I may have interpreted something - and I can't work out how. So, prithee enlighten me.
            I'm just trying to work out how your response applied.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by tabibito
              Mild criticism is not condemnation. And as noted, Thomas' request for a sign was not refused. It is reasonable to suppose, therefore, that he was not numbered with the wicked generation.
              Yup. Nobody holds up Thomas as the epitome of the ideal response among the disciples, but his reaction is most certainly not refused and his request was accommodated as one would any completely reasonable request.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                yes but the focus was the bible, not apologetic arguments. I'm asking this sincerely - did the Apostles or the writers on the NT use apologetic arguments?
                Yes. Apologetics as such presents arguments to counter criticism, but the core component of apologetics is to provide reasons for faith. Every presentation of the gospel is an exercise in apologetics. The gospel is presented with a view to persuading people to commit to Christ.

                Q: What's in it for me? Why should I commit?

                A: "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation" - this is an apologetic argument - it establishes a reason for committing.

                The core component of apologetics is to provide logically valid reasons for faith.

                But the question does arise - What do you mean by apologetics?

                This from Wikipedia

                Apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is the religious discipline of defending religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse.[1][2][3]Early Christian writers (c. 120–220) who defended their beliefs against critics and recommended their faith to outsiders were called Christian apologists.[4] In 21st-century usage, apologetics is often identified with debates over religion and theology.
                Last edited by tabibito; 08-20-2021, 11:07 PM.
                sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                Comment


                • #68
                  Apologetics (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is the religious discipline of defending religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse

                  Catholics defend their beliefs with apologetics, as do Mormons and Jews and all the others. They all have sets of systematic argumentation to present to any skeptic of their particular way of seeing and interpreting things, and reasons as to why the skeptic should change their view to align with the respective viewpoint.

                  Comment

                  Related Threads

                  Collapse

                  Topics Statistics Last Post
                  Started by Juvenal, 10-13-2021, 08:41 AM
                  19 responses
                  112 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post mossrose  
                  Started by seer, 10-11-2021, 06:32 PM
                  9 responses
                  77 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post Machinist  
                  Started by lee_merrill, 10-08-2021, 06:03 PM
                  5 responses
                  46 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post rogue06
                  by rogue06
                   
                  Started by seer, 10-06-2021, 05:21 PM
                  44 responses
                  229 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post seer
                  by seer
                   
                  Started by System199176, 10-06-2021, 09:36 AM
                  21 responses
                  225 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post rogue06
                  by rogue06
                   
                  Working...
                  X