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Is Fideism So Bad?

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  • Is Fideism So Bad?

    Soren Kierkegaard: For Kierkegaard faith is the highest human virtue. Faith is necessary for human fulfillment. It is above reason. Genuine faith is beyond the end of reason. Faith is higher than reason. Faith is the result of human striving. Faith should be the result of a subjective experience. The only way to know God is through such an experience that is extremely subjective and personal.
    I have a close friend who was converted in the early 80s. Now he is in no sense an ignorant man, but he does not care for apologetic arguments of any sort. The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it. His position is that the Holy Spirit caused him to believe (and has maintained that faith through some trying times) so there is no need for apologetic musings. I find it hard to counter this - he is very devote, and shares the gospel freely. And I don't see any real defeater for his position...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    I have a close friend who was converted in the early 80s. Now he is in no sense an ignorant man, but he does not care for apologetic arguments of any sort. The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it. His position is that the Holy Spirit caused him to believe (and has maintained that faith through some trying times) so there is no need for apologetic musings. I find it hard to counter this - he is very devote, and shares the gospel freely. And I don't see any real defeater for his position...
    For him there is no such need.

    I guess that unless he is actively witnessing and trying to convert others he can go through life without anything more than what he has.


    And this is coming from someone who thinks apologetics is a necessary part of a good religious education/understanding.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      If he has had a specific revelation from the Holy Spirit, then would that fit the definition of "fideism"?
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post

        I have a close friend who was converted in the early 80s. Now he is in no sense an ignorant man, but he does not care for apologetic arguments of any sort. The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it. His position is that the Holy Spirit caused him to believe (and has maintained that faith through some trying times) so there is no need for apologetic musings. I find it hard to counter this - he is very devote, and shares the gospel freely. And I don't see any real defeater for his position...
        He rejects knowledge, but he is not ignorant? That's a neat trick. God said His people perish for lack of knowledge, so your friend is in active disobedience to not have a reason for the faith that is in him. "The Bible says it" is not a reasonable reason if it is not undergirded by knowledge of why the Bible is the word of God.

        Muslims are devout. Hindus are devout. Satanists are devout. The true God seeks worshippers who worship Him in spirit and in truth. Your friend is leaving out the "in truth" part.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          For him there is no such need.

          I guess that unless he is actively witnessing and trying to convert others he can go through life without anything more than what he has.


          And this is coming from someone who thinks apologetics is a necessary part of a good religious education/understanding.
          But he does witness - to the death and resurrection of Christ and the hope of eternal life. Did the Apostles go much further than that? That is his argument.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            If he has had a specific revelation from the Holy Spirit, then would that fit the definition of "fideism"?
            I think Mike would say that it was the Holy Spirit that caused him to believe that the Bible is the Word of God.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post

              But he does witness - to the death and resurrection of Christ and the hope of eternal life. Did the Apostles go much further than that? That is his argument.
              The Bereans were praised for their seeking evidence to support what they were told. And how does he handle skeptical rejections?

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                He rejects knowledge, but he is not ignorant? That's a neat trick. God said His people perish for lack of knowledge, so your friend is in active disobedience to not have a reason for the faith that is in him. "The Bible says it" is not a reasonable reason if it is not undergirded by knowledge of why the Bible is the word of God.

                Muslims are devout. Hindus are devout. Satanists are devout. The true God seeks worshippers who worship Him in spirit and in truth. Your friend is leaving out the "in truth" part.
                No, he is not ignorant. The reason for the hope that is in us is the death and resurrection of Christ. And where did the Apostle argue that the Bible was the Word of God? They just stated that it was...
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  The Bereans were praised for their seeking evidence to support what they were told. And how does he handle skeptical rejections?
                  But they consulted the Old Testament - they were not looking into apologetic arguments.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    No, he is not ignorant. The reason for the hope that is in us is the death and resurrection of Christ. And where did the Apostle argue that the Bible was the Word of God? They just stated that it was...
                    He is at least ignorant on the most important things: why he believes in God and in Jesus Christ. You do not speak for "us". We would not even know of the death and resurrection of Christ if His life (you forgot that part), death and resurrection had not been passed down to us in written form. And why should we believe it though it is in writing?

                    The apostles were speaking to people who already agreed that the Bible was the word of God as a foundation of their very culture. If your friend "shares the gospel" to people who do not exist within such a culture--and in today's age they likely do not--then his ignorant "the Bible says it" should rightly receive scorn.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post

                      But they consulted the Old Testament - they were not looking into apologetic arguments.
                      The fact is that they still sought confirmation and didn't just accept what they were being told,

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        The fact is that they still sought confirmation and didn't just accept what they were being told,
                        yes but the focus was the bible, not apologetic arguments. I'm asking this sincerely - did the Apostles or the writers on the NT use apologetic arguments?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Darfius View Post

                          He is at least ignorant on the most important things: why he believes in God and in Jesus Christ. You do not speak for "us". We would not even know of the death and resurrection of Christ if His life (you forgot that part), death and resurrection had not been passed down to us in written form. And why should we believe it though it is in writing?

                          The apostles were speaking to people who already agreed that the Bible was the word of God as a foundation of their very culture. If your friend "shares the gospel" to people who do not exist within such a culture--and in today's age they likely do not--then his ignorant "the Bible says it" should rightly receive scorn.
                          That is not true they also converted Gentiles.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post

                            yes but the focus was the bible, not apologetic arguments. I'm asking this sincerely - did the Apostles or the writers on the NT use apologetic arguments?
                            Hmm... God question. Would Acts 17:22-31 count?

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Hmm... God question. Would Acts 17:22-31 count?
                              I just reread that - Paul pretty much uses Biblical truths to make the case...
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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