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Problematic Apologetics

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, for the last hour, I was in my conference room with the father of a mother of a family that has been visiting our church, and thinking about joining our church.

    Lemme back up... a woman, who is a veterinarian oncologist, has been visiting our church with her husband and 4 boys.
    She has told her dad, a local cattleman, about our church and me, in particular.

    He stopped by to "check me out" (he had called first and made an appointment) and wanted to know what I taught on Revelation.

    I told him, very generically, about the conversation I started here, and that I think we sometimes get way too carried away on things we really can't know.

    He seemed much relieved, and told me that the church he is currently attending (bigger church than ours) was borderline about to split, because there's an internal battle over various views of eschatology, because their pastor (I know him well) was really pushing a particular view of Revelation, and spending just about every Sunday Morning and Wednesday night message on it.

    He echoed my thoughts that people he highly respects as pastors and teachers can't seem to disagree on "future" things, and he is frustrated with the "pushy" viewpoints.

    (His pastor is a friend of mine pretty much fresh out of Seminary with his ThD, and loves to show how much he knows - He's still my friend, but I try to avoid "deep" discussions, and try to keep it light.)

    Which brings up another point -- some Churches won't even consider a pastor unless he has a Doctor's degree, not even knowing what kind of pastor he would be.
    Many years ago, I had a pastor who was really focused on spiritual gifts, especially speaking in tongues, almost fixated on it to the point that it started to drive people away from the church.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      Many years ago, I had a pastor who was really focused on spiritual gifts, especially speaking in tongues, almost fixated on it to the point that it started to drive people away from the church.
      That can certainly happen - and nobody ever said Satan was stupid. He takes the biggest issue for Unity in the Church - the Holy Spirit - and uses that to divide churches.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I see apologetics as largely being the shield of our faith. Something designed to defend Christianity from outside attacks that could sway believers if all they ever heard was those attacks.

        Oh, and if you want Nick's P.O.V., I suggest a summoning: Apologiaphoenix
        Good point! Knowing there are highly intelligent Christians both past and present very capable of defending the Christian faith has always been like a faith booster for me. Eg When Richards Dawkins wrote (The God Delusion) not even 3 months later I think, Francis Collins wrote, The Dawkins Delusion as a rebuttal. Something for arrogant and smart unbelievers to put in their pipes and smoke.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by 3 Resurrections View Post
          No offense taken, Cow Poke. I can understand why you might sense a red flag going up. The username of 3 Resurrections is only my way of identifying what I think is the only bridge that could unite all the various eschatological positions. As I said above, I think each one of the camps is partly seeing the truth of SOMETHING of the big picture. Sort of like the "Blind men and the Elephant" poem. Each of them were partly in the right, and all were in the wrong in some way. A THIRD resurrection in our future is the only way that all of these varying positions could be reconciled with each other. And it's very, very simple to prove this from scripture without twisting anything whatever.

          I hope I don't come across as some kind of crusader on here. In actuality, my main reason for being here is fellowship, and a continued part of my ongoing "therapy" against the past influences of sitting in a cult church with my husband for 16 years. HORRID aftermath effects of that spiritually abusive atmosphere - especially for the women and girls in the church. The "pastor" fell into sin in the typical fashion for many pastors, but still ended up being put back in his leadership position. During those years, I wanted to die, and I feared and hated domineering, oppressive men who had played a part in making my life a living hell. That was 20 years in the past when our family finally got out of that church, by God's mercy. Over the years, God has gently washed the bitterness from my mind and heart, and the ground feels level at the foot of the cross by now. But to keep from ever lapsing back into that poisonous mentality against my fellow Christian brothers, I make myself venture into the public arena and engage with you guys on purpose. Although I'm naturally an introvert, and I can totally identify with a lot of Nick's reticent perspectives on people and relationships. I relish reading the different types of viewpoints coming from each of you, and I wish there were a lot more women participating in the discussions as well - to help keep it balanced, you know.
          Beautifully written..."God has gently washed the bitterness from my mind and heart".

          Comment


          • #35
            It is very unfortunate when Christians take a dogmatic approach to end time events. Whether it be the pre-tribulation rapture or the preterist view. (Both I see as being the extremes).

            I tend to focus on their loving walking the walk, in the service of the Lord, but tend to not pay too much attention to their talk due to their, imo, extreme position on the end times.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Faber View Post

              Sorta like those who show up on Tweb using names of ancient Hellenistic philosophers.
              I am an equal opportunity heretic as my view of Christianity is more or less a hodgepodge.
              P1) If , then I win.

              P2)

              C) I win.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                I am an equal opportunity heretic as my view of Christianity is more or less a hodgepodge.
                Nice to see you around.

                Hope to see more contributions

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #38
                  Nice to see Cow Poke still plugging away! I’ve haven’t been on TWeb for ages and it seems like a bit happier place. When it comes to Christianity, I believe in the spirit of it, not the theology. Never heard of the Three Resurrections - sounds interesting. I’ve often used the diamond analogy regarding the verisimilitudes within the religion. Each diversion is like one facet of a finely cut diamond - each is necessary for the full opulence to shine.

                  NORM
                  When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                    Nice to see Cow Poke still plugging away! I’ve haven’t been on TWeb for ages and it seems like a bit happier place. When it comes to Christianity, I believe in the spirit of it, not the theology. Never heard of the Three Resurrections - sounds interesting. I’ve often used the diamond analogy regarding the verisimilitudes within the religion. Each diversion is like one facet of a finely cut diamond - each is necessary for the full opulence to shine.

                    NORM
                    howdy Norm! hope you are back for good!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Hi Sparko - we’ll see. I’ve greatly reduced the time I spend on social media, but I do fondly recall some rather “spirited” debate on the T-webs. It seems like most of us ancient of days share the same birth date of 2014, I presume because of the Great Crash of 2013? I still run into Dee Dee on occasion as she wages another holy war in the Libertarian encampment.
                      When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                        Hi Sparko - we’ll see. I’ve greatly reduced the time I spend on social media, but I do fondly recall some rather “spirited” debate on the T-webs. It seems like most of us ancient of days share the same birth date of 2014, I presume because of the Great Crash of 2013? I still run into Dee Dee on occasion as she wages another holy war in the Libertarian encampment.
                        Yep, Tweb was reincarnated from a backup in 2014. Yeah I am still friends with Dee Dee on Facebook. She has tried to get me to turn libertarian (I am Republican) but I think the libertarian party is all over the place and halfway nuts

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          Yep, Tweb was reincarnated from a backup in 2014. Yeah I am still friends with Dee Dee on Facebook. She has tried to get me to turn libertarian (I am Republican) but I think the libertarian party is all over the place and halfway nuts
                          They make good points, but... yeah.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                            They make good points, but... yeah.
                            They don't seem to have a unified vision. Some are almost like republicans (I think Jed was libertarian) and others are like neo-hippies who just want free access to pot. And others are anarchists. They don't seem to have any platform and since the one thing they do agree on is not having the government controlling anyone, how can they even be running for government seats? Seems like an oxymoron for there to even be running for government seats. What would they do if they won? Disband the government?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              Yep, Tweb was reincarnated from a backup in 2014. Yeah I am still friends with Dee Dee on Facebook. She has tried to get me to turn libertarian (I am Republican) but I think the libertarian party is all over the place and halfway nuts
                              The party is largely nuts. That's why I say I'm a small "l" libertarian.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                                Nice to see Cow Poke still plugging away! I’ve haven’t been on TWeb for ages and it seems like a bit happier place. When it comes to Christianity, I believe in the spirit of it, not the theology. Never heard of the Three Resurrections - sounds interesting. I’ve often used the diamond analogy regarding the verisimilitudes within the religion. Each diversion is like one facet of a finely cut diamond - each is necessary for the full opulence to shine.

                                NORM
                                That is a good analogy, Norm. My guess is that God allows the disparity in doctrinal differences to persist, just to give the watching world an opportunity to see how the children of God are capable of handling the differences between them with love and grace extended to each other. By this shall all men know that we are His disciples, by the love which we bear one for another.

                                If you have the time, and if you are at all interested in how the theme of three bodily resurrection events is developed in scripture, here is a link to another Christian forum site where I'm a member and post anonymously. In that post, I spelled out some of the details of the three bodily resurrection events for others to consider and critique. That link is http://www.gracecentered.com/christi...resurrections/

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