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Christianity, Atheism, and the Problem of Evil

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Omniscient simply means knowing everything that it is possible to know. If we truly have freewill, then it is not possible for God to know the decisions we will make until we make them. That is to say that our freewill decisions are the cause of God's knowledge of those decisions.
    To be omniscient is to have complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding. In other words perceiving all things.

    If the deity is truly omniscient it knows everything and that includes any action or though that any human being which has ever existed, or will exist, will ever have.

    You are limiting the power of this omniscient being by stating "it is not possible for God to know the decisions we will make until we make them". That is also getting dangerously close to alleging humankind has abilities that are beyond the power and control of this Supreme Creator Being .

    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      To be omniscient is to have complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding. In other words perceiving all things.

      If the deity is truly omniscient it knows everything and that includes any action or though that any human being which has ever existed, or will exist, will ever have.

      You are limiting the power of this omniscient being by stating "it is not possible for God to know the decisions we will make until we make them". That is also getting dangerously close to alleging humankind has abilities that are beyond the power and control of this Supreme Creator Being .
      Can an omniscient being know the answer to "15 divided by 0"? Can he know what a square circle looks like? Can he know how to possess tea and no tea at the same time and in the same sense? Point is, there are certain logical limits even for an omniscient being. Therefore, logically, if we have genuine freewill, then our decisions are the cause of God's knowledge of those decisions.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        Can an omniscient being know the answer to "15 divided by 0"? Can he know what a square circle looks like?
        Can he know how to possess tea and no tea at the same time and in the same sense? Point is, there are certain logical limits even for an omniscient being. Therefore, logically, if we have genuine freewill, then our decisions are the cause of God's knowledge of those decisions.
        You are constraining your deity to the bounds of logic but why should logical impossibilities be a limitation on this deity's power? .

        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          Can an omniscient being know the answer to "15 divided by 0"? Can he know what a square circle looks like? Can he know how to possess tea and no tea at the same time and in the same sense? Point is, there are certain logical limits even for an omniscient being. Therefore, logically, if we have genuine freewill, then our decisions are the cause of God's knowledge of those decisions.
          Are you an Open Theist?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            You are constraining your deity to the bounds of logic but why should logical impossibilities be a limitation on this deity's power? .
            Because He is a rational being, logical laws are a reflection of His mind. And He can not be other than Himself. Immutability.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              You are constraining your deity to the bounds of logic but why should logical impossibilities be a limitation on this deity's power? .
              Of course God is constrained by the bounds of logic. Otherwise we end up with the absurd situation where it would be possible for him be both God and not God at the same time and in the same sense.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                Because He is a rational being, logical laws are a reflection of His mind. And He can not be other than Himself. Immutability.
                That is nothing but your own anthropomorphic projection.


                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                Of course God is constrained by the bounds of logic.
                How do you know?

                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Otherwise we end up with the absurd situation where it would be possible for him be both God and not God at the same time and in the same sense.
                For an omniscient and omnipotent Supreme Being nothing is beyond its capabilities even things that strike us mere mortals as impossible.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by seer View Post

                  Are you an Open Theist?
                  Not that I'm aware of. What I'm proposing is a simple statement of logic: If we have freewill, then it is logically necessary that our decisions are the cause of God's knowledge of those decisions. Now where things get tricky is that God is not bound to our concept of time, so while we cause his knowledge of our decisions, from our perspective, he always knew what those decision would be and is able to shape the universe according to his will. It's not like God is sitting idly waiting for us to decide and then suddenly springs into action. Rather, from our limited point of view, he has already accounted for every decision we will ever make.

                  It's tricky stuff and something that we probably won't be able to fully comprehend until we get to heaven.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    That is nothing but your own anthropomorphic projection.

                    Why do you say that?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seer View Post


                      Why do you say that?
                      You perceive this entity to have a human form, human characteristics, and ascribe human behaviours to it. You even give it a sex [he].

                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        You perceive this entity to have a human form, human characteristics, and ascribe human behaviours to it. You even give it a sex [he].
                        That is nonsense, humans are not always rational, all knowing, supremely powerful, eternal with an immutable moral nature. Those are not human characteristics.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          You perceive this entity to have a human form, human characteristics, and ascribe human behaviours to it. You even give it a sex [he].
                          God self identifies as male. That should end the argument for anyone who supports the "self identification is valid" argument.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            For an omniscient and omnipotent Supreme Being nothing is beyond its capabilities even things that strike us mere mortals as impossible.
                            Your understanding of omnipotence is incoherent. The God you propose can know everything and know nothing at the same time and in the same sense; he can be both perfectly good and wholly evil at the same time and in the same sense; he can be omnipotent and impotent at the same time and in the same sense; he can have created the universe and not created the universe at the same time and in the same sense. It simply doesn't make sense.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              You perceive this entity to have a human form, human characteristics, and ascribe human behaviours to it. You even give it a sex [he].
                              Apparently you have no comprehension of the concept of anthropomorphism and why people utilize it.

                              But I'm sure after you get done Googling it you'll soon be lecturing me on it while declaring I must be unfamiliar with it. Kind of like what you did with MM when he brought up high context cultures.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Do I understand this correctly? A person who does not believe that God exists, yet claims to know what his properties are?
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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