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Does Materialism Destroy Rationality?

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  • Does Materialism Destroy Rationality?

    In other words how do non-physical ideals or beliefs bear on or influence the processes of the physical brain?

    (1) If materialism is true, then causal closure is true.

    (2) If causal closure is true, we cannot have knowledge of any non-physical, abstract objects.

    (3) The laws of logic are non-physical, abstract objects.

    (4) If materialism is true, we cannot have knowledge of the laws of logic.

    (5) Knowledge of the laws of logic is required in order for our rational inferences to be justified.

    (6) If materialism is true, we cannot make justified rational inferences, including the inference that materialism is true.

    (7) Therefore, materialism is self-defeating (and “has no right to claim that it can be supported by rational argument”).

    OR

    (1) If naturalism is true then we do not reason.

    (2) We reason. Therefore,

    (3) Naturalism is false.
    https://prism.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/...pdf?sequence=1
    Last edited by seer; 07-20-2021, 12:09 PM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    What is "Causal closure?"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      What is "Causal closure?"
      Nothing but the physical, physical processes, exist. Nothing non-physical can cause anything, or supervene on the physical. Logical laws or logical inference or mental content are not causal.
      Last edited by seer; 07-20-2021, 02:23 PM.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post

        Nothing but the physical, physical processes, exist. Nothing non-physical can cause anything, or supervene on the physical. Logical laws or logical inference or mental content are not causal.
        Isn't knowledge itself non-material?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          Isn't knowledge itself non-material?
          Yep, and therein lies the problem. According the the physicalist such non-physical concepts play no role. Your thoughts and reasoning are akin to the smoke emitted from a steam engine. They are there, but don't do anything.

          Epiphenomenalism is the view that mental events are caused by physical events in the brain, but have no effects upon any physical events. Behavior is caused by muscles that contract upon receiving neural impulses, and neural impulses are generated by input from other neurons or from sense organs.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            Isn't knowledge itself non-material?
            Depends on who you ask.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stoic View Post

              Depends on who you ask.
              Well per our last discussion I think we agreed that atoms don't care about or aim for truth or logic or inference.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                Yep, and therein lies the problem. According the the physicalist such non-physical concepts play no role. Your thoughts and reasoning are akin to the smoke emitted from a steam engine. They are there, but don't do anything.
                1. How can they even exist if everything is physical/material?
                2. It's demonstrably false that thoughts have no role in the physical world. The very act of arguing that is trying to use thought to influence someone else's thoughts and actions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                  Depends on who you ask.
                  Did you think that up yourself? Can you post a picture of that thought?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    1. How can they even exist if everything is physical/material?
                    2. It's demonstrably false that thoughts have no role in the physical world. The very act of arguing that is trying to use thought to influence someone else's thoughts and actions.
                    You would have to ask the materialist. They do grant that the physical brain can produce thoughts, just that thoughts, or non-physical concepts like logical laws, have no influence.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post

                      You would have to ask the materialist. They do grant that the physical brain can produce thoughts, just that thoughts, or non-physical concepts like logical laws, have no influence.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        That is why materialism destroys rationalism...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In other words how do non-physical ideals or beliefs bear on or influence the processes of the physical brain?

                          Are you asking how the software interacts with and influences the hardware?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                            In other words how do non-physical ideals or beliefs bear on or influence the processes of the physical brain?

                            Are you asking how the software interacts with and influences the hardware?
                            Perhaps, but I hesitate to use computer analogies...
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              Did you think that up yourself? Can you post a picture of that thought?
                              No.

                              But I can't post a picture of gravity, either.

                              Comment

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