Originally posted by Christianbookworm
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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H_A's Devil Hoedown Thread
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H_A's Devil Hoedown Thread
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira GershwinTags: None
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
He was one of the sons of god.
He was a creation of God who rebelled due to his own pride and was cast out of heaven by God.
Jesus is the Son of God. Believers are called sons of God. Angels are not.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View Post
He was a creation of God who rebelled due to his own pride and was cast out of heaven by God.
For interest. From Elaine Pagels, The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonised Jews, Pagans, and Heretics.
In the Hebrew Bible, as in mainstream Judaism to this day, Satan never appears as Western Christendom has come to know him, as the leader of an “evil empire,” an army of hostile spirits who make war on God and humankind alike.7 As he first appears in the Hebrew Bible, Satan is not necessarily evil, much less opposed to God. On the contrary, he appears in the book of Numbers and in Job as one of God's obedient servants—a messenger, or angel, a word that translates the Hebrew term for messenger (ma’lak) into Greek (angelos). In Hebrew, the angels were often called “sons of God” (bene ‘elohim), and were envisioned as the hierarchical ranks of a great army, or the staff of a royal court. [See p.40]
Of course that suggestion of a royal court reflects back to the original Canaanite pantheon of El and his consort, his children i.e. the lesser gods, although not necessarily by his consort, and the various messengers and courtiers. Those various figures were transformed into heavenly beings as the Hebrew religion developed. Pagels continues:
Around the time Job was written (c. 550 B.C.E.), however, other biblical writers invoked the satan to account for division within Israel. One court historian slips the satan into an account concerning the origin of census taking, which King David introduced into Israel c. 1000 BCE for the purpose of instituting taxation. David's introduction of taxation aroused vehement and immediate opposition [...] Why had David committed what one chronicler who recalls the story regards as an evil, aggressive act "against Israel"? Unable to deny that the offending order came from the king himself, but intent on condemning David's action without condemning the king directly, the author of I Chronicles suggests that a supernatural adversary within the divine court had managed to infiltrate the royal house and lead the king himself into sin: "The satan stood up against Israel and incited David to number the people" [I Chron.21:11]. But although an angelic power incited David to commit this otherwise inexplicable act, the chronicler insists that the king was nevertheless personally responsible - and guilty. [See pp 43]
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostWell that's a later interpretation
For interest. From Elaine Pagels, The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonised Jews, Pagans, and Heretics.
In the Hebrew Bible, as in mainstream Judaism to this day, Satan never appears as Western Christendom has come to know him, as the leader of an “evil empire,” an army of hostile spirits who make war on God and humankind alike.7 As he first appears in the Hebrew Bible, Satan is not necessarily evil, much less opposed to God. On the contrary, he appears in the book of Numbers and in Job as one of God's obedient servants—a messenger, or angel, a word that translates the Hebrew term for messenger (ma’lak) into Greek (angelos). In Hebrew, the angels were often called “sons of God” (bene ‘elohim), and were envisioned as the hierarchical ranks of a great army, or the staff of a royal court. [See p.40]
Of course that suggestion of a royal court reflects back to the original Canaanite pantheon of El and his consort, his children i.e. the lesser gods, although not necessarily by his consort, and the various messengers and courtiers. Those various figures were transformed into heavenly beings as the Hebrew religion developed. Pagels continues:
Around the time Job was written (c. 550 B.C.E.), however, other biblical writers invoked the satan to account for division within Israel. One court historian slips the satan into an account concerning the origin of census taking, which King David introduced into Israel c. 1000 BCE for the purpose of instituting taxation. David's introduction of taxation aroused vehement and immediate opposition [...] Why had David committed what one chronicler who recalls the story regards as an evil, aggressive act "against Israel"? Unable to deny that the offending order came from the king himself, but intent on condemning David's action without condemning the king directly, the author of I Chronicles suggests that a supernatural adversary within the divine court had managed to infiltrate the royal house and lead the king himself into sin: "The satan stood up against Israel and incited David to number the people" [I Chron.21:11]. But although an angelic power incited David to commit this otherwise inexplicable act, the chronicler insists that the king was nevertheless personally responsible - and guilty. [See pp 43]
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View Post
Once again, this is you. Willfully ignorant of hearing the truth.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
What truth? I think you are actually referring to what you believe to be the truth.
As compared to what you "believe" to be the truth? God's truth is the only truth.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by mossrose View Post
As compared to what you "believe" to be the truth? God's truth is the only truth."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
-
Originally posted by mossrose View Post
The only God, HA.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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