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Atheism, Slavery, And The Moral High Ground...

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Which is why I don't consider that art. More of a scam by people who don't have any talent to fool rich people. Like the "Emperor's New Clothes" - everyone's afraid to just admit it is crap.
    I've told this story before but back around 1990 I was dating Traci who was absolutely stunning (the sort of girl that caused all heads to turn when she entered a room). She was opening an art gallery intown and I along with my best friend attended the grand opening, and we noticed a piece of art that consisted of a white piece of cardboard with red ribbons pinned above the surface and a blue patch in the upper right corner studded with Coke bottle caps. It was an imitation of the U.S. flag using the bottle caps as stars. My buddy and I turned and looked at each other and I said something to the effect of my being able to slap that together on a kitchen table in about 5 minutes. Just then Traci walks up (did I mention just how gorgeous she was?) and says "Oooh. Do you like it? I'm having the artist make me one."

    I'll note that this was the same event where it got so hot (the grand opening was packed) I had to step outside to cool off. And proceeded to get into a street corner political discussion with a guy in a three-piece suit, a Hell's Angel (he was sporting his "colors") and a guy wearing a tied-dyed robe. It was the latter guy who didn't know that Ronald Reagan had been president just a year or two before. I'll never forget his stunned reaction upon hearing it: "The Death Valley dude?"

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Of course that looks an awful lot like some "modern art"
    Which is why I don't consider that art. More of a scam by people who don't have any talent to fool rich people. Like the "Emperor's New Clothes" - everyone's afraid to just admit it is crap.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Jackson Pollock!

    61nKtsD8mOL._AC_.jpg
    IMHBAO after impressionism modern art quickly started circling the drain with very few exceptions.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Of course that looks an awful lot like some "modern art"
    Jackson Pollock!

    61nKtsD8mOL._AC_.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    If after several rolls of the dice humans came up with art in many different places at different times, and chimps never did, that pretty much tanks your argument. Humans came up with art as a method of communicating with each other and to record events/memories. I think any generation of humans would stumble on art almost instantly as they tried to communicate with each other.



    Even when researchers try to teach chimps how to paint, the best they can do is make an abstract mess on a canvas.

    congo-art.jpg
    Of course that looks an awful lot like some "modern art"

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post
    If I roll a six-sided die, the odds that a six will come up is only one in six each time, but if I roll it lots of times, it's pretty much guaranteed to come up six eventually.


    I'm not saying that chimp are the equals of humans. Just that the difference may not be as great as some people think.
    If after several rolls of the dice humans came up with art in many different places at different times, and chimps never did, that pretty much tanks your argument. Humans came up with art as a method of communicating with each other and to record events/memories. I think any generation of humans would stumble on art almost instantly as they tried to communicate with each other.



    Even when researchers try to teach chimps how to paint, the best they can do is make an abstract mess on a canvas.

    congo-art.jpg
    Last edited by Sparko; 06-08-2021, 07:23 AM.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
    What would have been really cool if some other animal than the monkey took that quantum leap. Like for instance, what if it was the Tiger instead of the monkey, and instead of monkey looking people, you would have Tiger looking people. And the tiger would be referred to as Man's closest relative, and there would be ongoing debate about whether or not we evolved from Tigers. I mean, I wonder why it was monkeys, and not Tigers?
    Two suggestions.

    A) Pick up a book on basic biology.

    2. Share.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post

    Our behavior is not ‘determined’ by Natural Selection but as a social species our evolved ‘instincts’ incline us to behave in certain ways to enhance communal living. Although, some resist. Just as a mother is instinctively predisposed to nurture her child. She is free to reject this role and some do.
    You are not making sense. Primates live communally yet that is biologically determined. So do you agree that we have free will? Yes or no?

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

    I'm not saying that humans can't invent writing and art. I just don't think it's likely to happen in one generation.
    Right, but it didn't seem to happen with any other species no matter how many generations they had. This is a real distinction of humanity. Along with many others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    I don't know. These guys are still monkey looking tiger people. What I mean is they are shaped similar to monkeys still. This is not what I am talking about.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

    Yes, humans are able to learn art from other humans, just as other animals are able to learn art from humans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal-made_art
    Are these animals are even aware what they have been taught is "art"? Do they even have a concept of art?

    In contrast nobody showed humans how to create art. They didn't just mechanically repeat what they were shown by some other creature.

    IOW, humans weren't taught -- they created it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

    Making gas more expensive and trusting capitalism to come up with an alternative is arguably more efficient than having the government decide what the alternative is going to be, and having government provide it.
    Meanwhile the Earth is being destroyed. There is plastic at the bottom of blue holes and an island the size of Texas composed of nothing but plastic in the middle of the Pacific. Capitalism is not going to address this. Before this system develops any sustainable technology, the rain forests of the Earth will be pastureland. It needs to cease and desist immediately.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

    I'm not saying that humans can't invent writing and art. I just don't think it's likely to happen in one generation.
    I agree with that. I don't think it's plausible that within one or even two generations, a feral tribe of humans would develop even crude notations, that the group agreed upon, and that could then be taught and passed down to the next generation.

    I wonder how many generations it would take, left to themselves without any interference from the outside world that is?
    Last edited by Machinist; 06-08-2021, 05:14 AM.

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  • Tassman
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Once again you are desperately attempting to distract attention away from what happens when you and your ilk achieve complete power.
    Not so. It is YOU desperately diverting attention away from centuries of Christian slave ownership by claiming that slavery in totalitarian states is worse. It’s not – slavery is unacceptable no matter who the perpetrators.

    But the difference is that Christian slavery came under the auspices of scriptural justification and the fictional notion of universal, objective, God-given morality. Until it didn't.

    The hypocrisy of the Christian far right and its ilk is plain for all to see.





    Leave a comment:


  • Tassman
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    So we are not determined? So humans do escape instinctual behaviors?
    Our behavior is not ‘determined’ by Natural Selection but as a social species our evolved ‘instincts’ incline us to behave in certain ways to enhance communal living. Although, some resist. Just as a mother is instinctively predisposed to nurture her child. She is free to reject this role and some do.

    Leave a comment:

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