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Atheism, Slavery, And The Moral High Ground...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

    You "feel" that it exists, anyway.
    My feelings make no difference. But I do believe that logically universal moral truths make more sense than moral relativism.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #32
      Why fo some oddly intelligent primates even car about morality?
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        My feelings make no difference. But I do believe that logically universal moral truths make more sense than moral relativism.
        I'm sure that you would "feel bad" if you found that there were no universal moral truths.

        But I don't see a cogent logical argument for the existence of universal moral truths.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

          I'm sure that you would "feel bad" if you found that there were no universal moral truths.
          That is a stretch since most of my adult life I was agnostic about God and universal moral truths. Except I did flirt with Platonic forms.

          But I don't see a cogent logical argument for the existence of universal moral truths.
          Not hard to do if you start with an immutably moral Creator. But an atheist would not accept the first premise.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Not hard to do if you start with an immutably moral Creator. But an atheist would not accept the first premise.
            Exactly. If you're going to provide rational grounds for objecting to slavery, you have to start with premises that everyone can accept.

            If you are allowed to start with arbitrary premises, atheists can provide rational grounds just as easily as theists.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Stoic View Post
              Exactly. If you're going to provide rational grounds for objecting to slavery, you have to start with premises that everyone can accept.
              No, it doesn't work that way. The point is one can make a deductive argument for universal moral truths if one starts with a moral creator. And any one can reject any premise - so universal acceptance isn't that easy, or necessary.

              If you are allowed to start with arbitrary premises, atheists can provide rational grounds just as easily as theists.
              I can get to moral universals with God can you get there without God?
              Last edited by seer; 05-12-2021, 06:56 PM.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                The standard for any objective morality is that it has to work for everyone.
                "The standard should be the standard."

                Tautological fallacy.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  No, it doesn't work that way. The point is one can make a deductive argument for universal moral truths if one starts with a moral creator. And any one can reject any premise - so universal acceptance isn't that easy, or necessary.

                  I can get to moral universals with God can you get there without God?
                  Yes, but you would disagree with one or more of my premises.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    I see no good rational objections from atheists. Emotional response, yes.
                    I gave you a rational objection not an emotional one. Do you legit not actually understand the difference?

                    Or is this just an emotional response on your part?
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                      Yes, but you would disagree with one or more of my premises.
                      Really? I would still like to see how you got to universal moral truths...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        I gave you a rational objection not an emotional one. Do you legit not actually understand the difference?

                        Or is this just an emotional response on your part?
                        Excuse me where did you do that concerning slavery? Link please...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by seer View Post

                          The point is one can make a deductive argument for universal moral truths if one starts with a moral creator.

                          How is this not an arbitrary starting point?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            playing devil's advocate: How was making criminals and POWs into slaves in the ancient world any different than us putting them into prisons and using their labor today?
                            1) Prisoners (are supposed to) get paid.
                            2) Prison terms are (usually) limited.

                            Edited to add: Actually, point (1) may be wrong - I'm assuming prisoners are paid based on various sources, but it may not be true, or may not be universal. I hope it is that case that prisoners in the US are paid for their labour, preferably with more than just food and board.
                            Last edited by Roy; 05-13-2021, 08:42 AM.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                              How is this not an arbitrary starting point?
                              If I want to argue for universal moral truths, I need to start with a mind that is universal. Since morality originates in minds and the only mind I know of that is universal is God, or something akin to God... But the larger point is that something like this must be the case for universals to exist. Or we are thrown back to ethical relativism.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post

                                Really? I would still like to see how you got to universal moral truths...
                                Oops. I forgot that you defined "universal moral truths" as "the law of God".

                                Nope, I can't get there. But I don't see a need to.

                                Comment

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