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Atheism, Slavery, And The Moral High Ground...

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  • #76
    Basically, what Seer is saying here, is that the atheist can say this or that is immoral, but in essence, all they are doing is uttering words expressing their emotional reactions.

    Stoic maintains that Seer is doing the exact same thing, just one level back.

    It seems this argument hinges on how your ideas of "sense of justice" and "emotions" are configured within your map of reality. How are these two things separate, and where do you draw the line between the two. Or are they one in the same and depending on how they are accessed determines how they are labeled out of convenience for the sake of argument.

    This is an extremely intriguing dialogue.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


      In the vast expanse of the universe the problems and concerns of a species of bipedal ape that inhabit a small planet which orbits a very ordinary star, which itself is situated on the outer spiral arm of just one galaxy, has no significance or importance whatsoever.
      I guess I may as well go have sex.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post
        Sure. As you point out, some people are morally stunted.


        Emotion is left out as much as possible in determining facts.

        Not so much in determining sentences.
        The bottom line is that one's sense of justice need not be attendant by emotion.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Machinist View Post
          Basically, what Seer is saying here, is that the atheist can say this or that is immoral, but in essence, all they are doing is uttering words expressing their emotional reactions.

          Stoic maintains that Seer is doing the exact same thing, just one level back.

          It seems this argument hinges on how your ideas of "sense of justice" and "emotions" are configured within your map of reality. How are these two things separate, and where do you draw the line between the two. Or are they one in the same and depending on how they are accessed determines how they are labeled out of convenience for the sake of argument.

          This is an extremely intriguing dialogue.
          And I want to be clear, I don't think that having emotional reactions to moral evils is a bad thing. It is one of the qualities that make us human. But that emotions can not be the ground for universal moral truths....
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Machinist View Post

            I guess I may as well go have sex.
            That is the triad, birth, sex, and death!
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


              In the vast expanse of the universe the problems and concerns of a species of bipedal ape that inhabit a small planet which orbits a very ordinary star, which itself is situated on the outer spiral arm of just one galaxy, has no significance or importance whatsoever.
              Spoken like a true existential nihilist...
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                And I want to be clear, I don't think that having emotional reactions to moral evils is a bad thing. It is one of the qualities that make us human. But that emotions can not be the ground for universal moral truths....
                Yeah i'm pretty clear on that. I'm just wondering now that if you were to really investigate it, does this sense of justice spring from emotions?

                There is indeed a sense of justice or rather injustice when I ponder Mao killing millions of people. I'm not connected to the story in any way, nor do I know all the details. But if he lived to a ripe old age and died in the lap of luxury, then it becomes sort of like a math equation at that point. It makes you want to balance the equation so to speak. As far as I can tell, there is no emotions evoked within me when I hear this, I just notice that the scales of justice are imbalanced. Hmmm. That's interesting.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Roy View Post
                  You think whether convicted criminals have less rights than others is not a moral question? Wow.

                  Wow. You are defending slavery as being better than genocide..
                  Wow, you think genocide is better than slavery!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    Wow, you think genocide is better than slavery!
                    Non-binary thinking isn't your strong point, is it.

                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                      Yeah i'm pretty clear on that. I'm just wondering now that if you were to really investigate it, does this sense of justice spring from emotions?

                      There is indeed a sense of justice or rather injustice when I ponder Mao killing millions of people. I'm not connected to the story in any way, nor do I know all the details. But if he lived to a ripe old age and died in the lap of luxury, then it becomes sort of like a math equation at that point. It makes you want to balance the equation so to speak. As far as I can tell, there is no emotions evoked within me when I hear this, I just notice that the scales of justice are imbalanced. Hmmm. That's interesting.
                      Exactly. And as a Christian I believe this sense of justice is hard wired into us, intuitive (i.e. the law of God written on our hearts). Of course it is distorted by sin and selfishness.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Roy View Post
                        Non-binary thinking isn't your strong point, is it.
                        Apparently it's you who fails in that area Roy, judging by the fact it was YOUR comment to me which I was mocking.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by seer View Post

                          Spoken like a true existential nihilist...
                          No it's scientific fact. The universe is entirely indifferent to this planet.

                          As to what happens when the sun becomes a red giant.... well here's "food for thought" https://phys.org/news/2016-05-earth-...red-giant.html

                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            Apparently it's you who fails in that area Roy, judging by the fact it was YOUR comment to me which I was mocking.
                            You shouldn't mock things you don't understand.

                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Roy View Post
                              You shouldn't mock things you don't understand.
                              You should take your own advice.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                No it's scientific fact. The universe is entirely indifferent to this planet.
                                Well of course if you leave God out of the equation. Of course as Christians we don't have to...



                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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