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Atheism, Slavery, And The Moral High Ground...

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Ah, so mushrooms are involved. I figured it was just combustibles hence my tease about needing to share.
    Yes, mushrooms are involved in the theory. That is the stoned ape theory. It comes across as cartoonish at first glance I know, and it's easy to scoff at it, make jokes of it,

    but perhaps there is some merit to the argument. Do you have any other ideas as to how monkeys made this quantum leap?

    And if mushrooms, or some naturally occurring psychoactive plant really was a catalyst,

    then theoretically, "why couldn't tigers evolve into higher consciousness" is a valid question.

    Of course they're not foragers, and they don't have grasping fingers to pluck with,

    but if the theory has any merit to it at all, then anything that possess any sort of sentience at all could evolve into higher and higher levels of perception.

    This is not my idea. There are books written on the subject.

    Perhaps consciousness can evolve.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

      Perhaps consciousness can evolve.
      It would seem that you are either self-aware or not. How can you be a little self-aware? Of course as a Christian I'm not limited to naturalistic explanations.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Yes, monkeys have fingers. That makes sense now why it was monkeys.

        At least that part makes sense.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post

          It would seem that you are either self-aware or not. How can you be a little self-aware? Of course as a Christian I'm not limited to naturalistic explanations.
          "heightened self awareness" then may not be a thing. It's just a vacuous phrase.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Machinist View Post
            Yes, monkeys have fingers. That makes sense now why it was monkeys.

            At least that part makes sense.
            how would some monkey getting stoned and becoming self-aware pass that on genetically to the next generation? Getting high doesn't change your DNA.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              how would some monkey getting stoned and becoming self-aware pass that on genetically to the next generation? Getting high doesn't change your DNA.
              I don't know. But there are scholars who have written books on it.


              I'm sure it would involve a psycho-genetic component and those pathways evolving over time though. I really can't say, I haven't read up on it hardly at all.
              Last edited by Machinist; 06-08-2021, 12:59 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                I don't know. But there are scholars who have written books on it.


                I'm sure it would involve a psycho-genetic component and those pathways evolving over time though. I really can't say, I haven't read up on it hardly at all.
                Lamarkian evolution has been disproven a long time ago.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  Lamarkian evolution has been disproven a long time ago.
                  In a very few instances it has made a bit of a comeback but IIRC these are very narrow instances

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    In a very few instances it has made a bit of a comeback but IIRC these are very narrow instances
                    It would have to be something that actually mutates the DNA in an organism's gametes.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      It would have to be something that actually mutates the DNA in an organism's gametes.
                      It has to do with the epigenome and epigenetics, but beyond that I'd need to do some Googling to refresh my memory. It never was an area that I delved into very deeply.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        It would have to be something that actually mutates the DNA in an organism's gametes.
                        Not quite. If you think of the DNA as computer code that runs in the organism, the epigenome is the bits that are commented out. The epigenome appears to be affected particularly strongly by environmental factors.

                        The epigenome deactivates bits of the DNA. So you can get two people who have the same DNA in a gene but one person's is inactive as the epigenome has turned it off.

                        Changes in the epigenome appear to be able to be inherited in a Lamarckian type way. It is a very active area of research.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post

                          You are not making sense. Primates live communally yet that is biologically determined.
                          Primates, including the human primate, live communally because this is how they have evolved to live. Hence, they are naturally inclined to behave in such a way as to enhance social cohesion. Those that don’t are rejected by the community.

                          So do you agree that we have free will? Yes or no?
                          Why would we be any different to our fellow primates in this regard - do our simian cousins have free will? Yes, or no?
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Not quite. If you think of the DNA as computer code that runs in the organism, the epigenome is the bits that are commented out. The epigenome appears to be affected particularly strongly by environmental factors.

                            The epigenome deactivates bits of the DNA. So you can get two people who have the same DNA in a gene but one person's is inactive as the epigenome has turned it off.

                            Changes in the epigenome appear to be able to be inherited in a Lamarckian type way. It is a very active area of research.
                            interesting. Thanks.

                            Comment


                            • Do monkeys have free will?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                                Do monkeys have free will?
                                Folks are still arguing over whether or not humans have free will

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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