Atheism, Slavery, And The Moral High Ground...

[seer]

]

So, slavery in the US was the fault of the “Natives”? Really! I guess this must be before the “Natives” were slaughtered by the Christian colonialists and prior to transporting millions of native African slaves.

Again Tass, the point is slavery was near universal. Christians did not start it in the West but we ended it in the West.

What the evolutionary process “ended up with” was the result of incremental mutations over millions of years that developed traits suited to the environment. This as opposed to mutations that resulted in extinction.

So we got lucky? Haphazard flip of the coin?

Tribalism by definition promotes strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group and the exclusion (or destruction) of those that threaten one’s own group – especially if one believes that one’s “own group” comprises god’s chosen people.

Again tribalism does not necessarily lead to murderous behavior.

No, you have not. What you continually provide are variations on the Golden Rule which has been historically accepted by ALL human societies throughout history – long predating Christianity.

That is false, I have listed a number of Biblical moral wrongs that are universally immoral.

The abolitionists were Christian because virtually EVERYONE was Christian in that society during that era – including those that implemented the slavery in the first place. What some of the Christian population did was reflect the evolving social values of the day regarding slavery – just as they did regarding the subjugation of women and (more recently) full civil rights for blacks and LGBT people etc.

Well I'm glad you agree that it was Christians that ended slavery in the West. And if you actually did take the time to read the abolitionists you will notice that their arguments were Biblical.

[rogue06]

Such nations don’t claim, as do the Christian populations, that their moral values are based upon the absolute, universal morality of God - as did the Christian slave owners for centuries.

In justifying why you find slave labor being used in secular communist "people's paradises" it sounds like you are proclaiming that it is because atheists don't have any moral guidelines to follow so slavery is okay if they do it. Are you sure that's the road you want to go down?

Further, they have repeatedly promised a land where everyone is equal. Just how are you equal if you're nothing but slave labor?

The time-frame should not make any difference if you are claiming the existence of absolute universal morality as supposedly revealed in the bible.

Sooo, it is perfectly fine for atheistic communists to own slaves today. Got it

[Tassman]

it sounds like you are proclaiming that it is because atheists don't have any moral guidelines to follow so slavery is okay if they do it. Are you sure that's the road you want to go down?

What totalitarian states claim is ideological justification - this as opposed to Christian slave owner’s justification of acting according to God’s word. For centuries! Not much difference between the two, actually. Same end result.

Sooo, it is perfectly fine for atheistic communists to own slaves today. Got it

No more acceptable than theistic communities owning slaves in God’s name according to the alleged absolute, universal morality of God.

[Tassman]

Again Tass, the point is slavery was near universal. Christians did not start it in the West but we ended it in the West.

Christians most certainly started slavery in the colonial territories where they had power. And it took centuries before they got around to ending it. Even now the repercussions of the remaining power differential in the US, is a tremendous social problem.

So we got lucky? Haphazard flip of the coin?

No, we ended up as a cooperative social species via the natural process of Evolutionary Natural Selection.

Again tribalism does not necessarily lead to murderous behavior.

Nevertheless, tribalism frequently DOES lead to murderous behavior. The Israelites barbarous invasion of the lands of tribal rivals is an example.

That is false, I have listed a number of Biblical moral wrongs that are universally immoral.

And yet Christian societies managed to rationalize and justify many of these “universally moral wrongs” for centuries. It’s truly astonishing how the bible can be made to reinforce what Christians want to believe at any one time.

Well I'm glad you agree that it was Christians that ended slavery in the West. And if you actually did take the time to read the abolitionists you will notice that their arguments were Biblical.

So, they should, given that Christians instituted slavery in the Christian West in the first place. Their arguments at the time were also biblical. And they maintained slavery for centuries until the emergence of more enlightened social mores resulted in a different interpretation of the bible where ALL men are equal.

Although the advocates of Jim Crow and KKK lynching-gangs with their burning crosses were less convinced. Nor were the white mobs that perpetrated the Tulsa race massacre in 1921.

[seer]

No, we ended up as a cooperative social species via the natural process of Evolutionary Natural Selection.

Why did we end up being this lucky while most species never made it this far? NS doesn't care about us or even aim for our survival. It certainly does not care about moral concepts. But we magically do?

[Sparko]

One man plus one woman have a baby. 1+1=3

[rogue06]

What totalitarian states claim is ideological justification - this as opposed to Christian slave owner’s justification of acting according to God’s word. For centuries! Not much difference between the two, actually. Same end result.

Quit with whataboutism. The fact is that your crowd (secular leftists) still support slavery as evidenced by the fact that whenever and wherever you seize complete control, slavery follows -- even in areas where it previous was illegal.

Y'all really need to get your own house in order today before kvetching about what others did in the 1800s and earlier. We're well into the 21st cent. and you guys still have slaves.

[Tassman]

Why did we end up being this lucky while most species never made it this far? NS doesn't care about us or even aim for our survival. It certainly does not care about moral concepts. But we magically do?

There’s no “magic” about it. Natural Selection is merely the process through which living organisms adapt and change. Individuals in a population are naturally variable and mutate and some traits are better suited to the environment than others.

[Tassman]

Quit with whataboutism. The fact is that your crowd (secular leftists) still support slavery as evidenced by the fact that whenever and wherever you seize complete control, slavery follows

I wasn’t aware that “our crowd” in the Western world were responsible for the likes of the Jim Crow Laws and black lynching’s (the last being in 1981) nor Tulsa race massacre in 1921. We tend to leave those things to the Christians.

Y'all really need to get your own house in order today before kvetching about what others did in the 1800s and earlier. We're well into the 21st cent. and you guys still have slaves.

If the law of absolute universal morality was a fact – as you Christians say it is – then it would not matter when “you guys” owned slaves it was equally bad then as it would be now.

[Starlight]

wherever you seize complete control, slavery follows -- even in areas where it previous was illegal.

Are you getting confused with how slavery was illegal in your state until popular evangelist George Whitefield successfully campaigned for it to be made legal?

[rogue06]

Um, er, uh... LOOK EVERYONE A SHINY NICKEL!

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What's the matter Tas? You've been trying to rationalize slavery in your People's Paradises, so why don't you just embrace the fact that whenever and wherever your ilk gain complete power forced labor is sure to follow?

Pretending to be morally superior you guys are still enslaving people and entire ethnic groups. Can you say "新疆职业技能教育培训中心"? That's the name of the camps that the Chicoms keep their Uygur slave labor in. Or maybe "gulag" is easier. Those were the Soviet slave labor camps that you guys established when you seized control of Russia, which had shortly before finally freed the last of the serfs there. They're also what some on the left here openly dream about establishing here in the U.S.

Seriously, we literally had "Bernie bros" inside Sander's campaign waxing poetic over the beauty of gulags and the need for reeducating the people if the left were able to take control. For instance a Field Organizer for the Sanders Campaign, Kyle Jurek, made the following statements:

"There's a reason Joseph Stalin had gulags, right? And actually, gulags were a lot better than what the CIA has told us that they were. Like, people were actually paid a living wage in gulags, they had conjugal visits in gulags. Gulags were actually meant for like re-education."

"Greatest way to break a [f-bomb] billionaire of their like, privilege and their idea that they're superior, go out and break rocks for 12 hours a day."

"Like we're probably going to have to do the same [f-bomb] thing here. That's kind of what all Bernie's whole [f-bomb] like "hey, free education!" for everybody, because we're going to have to teach you to not be a [f-bomb] Nazi."

There are videos available of him making these statements and nobody would ever take his tone and expression as being anything less than deathly serious and certainly not joking. I'd link to them but as you can see from the excerpts that, like so many other self-proclaimed anarcho-communists, he can barely manage a single sentence without lacing it with f-bombs and other vulgarities.

And he wasn't the only paid staffer on the Sanders campaign staff who talked about "send[ing] all the Republicans to the reeducation camps" and gulags.

See also Sanders camp mum on pro-gulag staffer, says Iowans 'don't care about political gossip'.



The fact is that y'all have a thing for enslaving groups that you don't like and it isn't like you've ever stopped.

[rogue06]

Are you getting confused with how slavery was illegal in your state until popular evangelist George Whitefield successfully campaigned for it to be made legal?

Tell me star, why is it that whenever and wherever your ilk manage to seize complete control you can still find slavery being practiced even if you have to reinstitute it like you did in Russia?

Whitfield has been dead for over a quarter of a millennia -- 251 years. Leftwing atheists still keep slaves today, in 2021.

[seer]

There’s no “magic” about it. Natural Selection is merely the process through which living organisms adapt and change. Individuals in a population are naturally variable and mutate and some traits are better suited to the environment than others.

No magic? How did biological meat come to form moral concepts like the golden rule? Especially since the process is deaf, dumb and blind to moral concepts.

[Starlight]

Tell me star, why is it that whenever and wherever your ilk manage to seize complete control you can still find slavery being practiced even if you have to reinstitute it like you did in Russia?

Maybe stop pretending I ran Russia? I could pretend you ran Nazi Germany if you want to go that insane route.

The USSR's twisted form of communism was regarded at the time as serious heresy by left wing groups who kicked the communists out of their membership, and prominent democratic socialist writer George Orwell wrote the most famous works attacking them.

If you want to be taken seriously, at all, write posts comparing modern left wing views to Scandinavian countries rather than communist ones.

If you prefer to look like an utter moron, carry on writing posts like you have been.

[Tassman]

What's the matter Tas? You've been trying to rationalize slavery in your People's Paradises, so why don't you just embrace the fact that whenever and wherever your ilk gain complete power forced labor is sure to follow?

Nonsense. You are referring to totalitarianism which is not acceptable to anyone in the West that I’m aware of. And “my ilk” tend to prefer their socialism under the moderate, secular non-forced labor model as found in Australia, NZ and the Scandinavian countries etc.– ALL of which rank higher on the UN Human Development Index and the Happiness Index than the largely Christian USA, which has the highest incarceration rates and greatest social inequity of virtually every other Western country.

Pretending to be morally superior you guys are still enslaving people and entire ethnic groups. Can you say "新疆职业技能教育培训中心"? That's the name of the camps that the Chicoms keep their Uygur slave labor in. Or maybe "gulag" is easier. Those were the Soviet slave labor camps that you guys established when you seized control of Russia, which had shortly before finally freed the last of the serfs there. They're also what some on the left here openly dream about establishing here in the U.S.

Seriously, we literally had "Bernie bros" inside Sander's campaign waxing poetic over the beauty of gulags and the need for reeducating the people if the left were able to take control. For instance a Field Organizer for the Sanders Campaign, Kyle Jurek, made the following statements:

"There's a reason Joseph Stalin had gulags, right? And actually, gulags were a lot better than what the CIA has told us that they were. Like, people were actually paid a living wage in gulags, they had conjugal visits in gulags. Gulags were actually meant for like re-education."

"Greatest way to break a [f-bomb] billionaire of their like, privilege and their idea that they're superior, go out and break rocks for 12 hours a day."

"Like we're probably going to have to do the same [f-bomb] thing here. That's kind of what all Bernie's whole [f-bomb] like "hey, free education!" for everybody, because we're going to have to teach you to not be a [f-bomb] Nazi."

There are videos available of him making these statements and nobody would ever take his tone and expression as being anything less than deathly serious and certainly not joking. I'd link to them but as you can see from the excerpts that, like so many other self-proclaimed anarcho-communists, he can barely manage a single sentence without lacing it with f-bombs and other vulgarities.

And he wasn't the only paid staffer on the Sanders campaign staff who talked about "send[ing] all the Republicans to the reeducation camps" and gulags.

See also Sanders camp mum on pro-gulag staffer, says Iowans 'don't care about political gossip'.



The fact is that y'all have a thing for enslaving groups that you don't like and it isn't like you've ever stopped.

Get a grip, rogue, you’re hysterical. Start by defending your claim that ‘universal absolute morality’ exists. And explain why those who advocate such a concept, namely Christians, have an abysmal record of slave ownership and racial discrimination throughout history.