Atheism, Slavery, And The Moral High Ground...

[Tassman]

Tass many, if not most, devout church-going Christians in the West never had anything to do with slavery.

Devout church-going Christians, i.e. the majority of the population in the USA, tolerated slavery for centuries. And subsequently implemented the discriminatory Jim Crow Laws relegating blacks to second-class citizens - the residue of which remains today despite the best efforts of the likes of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement.

That however tell us nothing about whether universals exist or not. .

There would be NO moral values nor rules of behavior EXCEPT for the specific existence of humans. Morality does not exist in a vacuum, its origin is human biology and natural selection, not a divine mandate.

. And God's moral law would not just pertain to Christianity or that era, as Scripture teaches: All men have the law of God written on their hearts and are created in His image. The image of a moral Being. Sadly sin and selfishness often prevents us from listening to that still small voice of our better angels..

The Golden Rule is the embodiment of ‘reciprocity’ and ‘cooperation’ essential for the survival of a social species such as us to live in cohesive communities - as is “treating others with fairness, gentleness, graciousness, kindness, etc.” which you previously referenced.

Hence it is not surprising that variations of the Golden Rule can be found in ALL human societies throughout human history - from cultures as diverse as ancient Egypt and Confucian China. It long predates Christianity.

[Starlight]

Tass many, if not most, devout church-going Christians in the West never had anything to do with slavery.

That comment belongs in the screwball thread.

The US's biggest denomination, the Southern Baptists, were founded / separated from the other Baptists, explicitly to defend slavery.

Georgia was the only early US colony to ban slavery, but George Whitefield, a major evangelical figure and founder of Methodism, spearheaded a successful campaign to get slavery reinstated in Georgia.

To say nothing of the fact that nearly all slave owners of the era were devout church goers, because everyone was.

[shunyadragon]

That is true-ish. But it was rendered meaningless.

In Eph. 6, after giving slaves detailed instructions on how they were to behave, Paul then turned around and told the paterfamilias to treat the slaves "the same way" he had just told the slaves to behave toward the paterfamilias. Paul placed them on exactly equal footing, which expands on what was implicit in Gal. 3:28 and Col. 3:11.

In this PDF, Payne explains how Paul pressed Philemon to free Onesimus in the strongest terms possible short of direct command and threat.

It is not true-ish. It is true. In fact your references still condone and endorse slavery, but yes, endorse better treatment of slaves. It remains a fact that the New Testament does not forbid slavery and the proponents of slavery use scripture as above to justify slavery in Christian history as desscribed by Starlight.

[seer]

That comment belongs in the screwball thread.

The US's biggest denomination, the Southern Baptists, were founded / separated from the other Baptists, explicitly to defend slavery.

Georgia was the only early US colony to ban slavery, but George Whitefield, a major evangelical figure and founder of Methodism, spearheaded a successful campaign to get slavery reinstated in Georgia.

To say nothing of the fact that nearly all slave owners of the era were devout church goers, because everyone was.

And what is your point? Like I said most Christians in the West had nothing to do with slavery, and again you fail to mention that the Abolition movement was largely populated by Christians.

[Machinist]

Does any atheist here see moral relativist as a derogatory label?

I'm just wondering why there seems to be a reluctance to acknowledge this, like someone is calling you a bad name.

[seer]

Devout church-going Christians, i.e. the majority of the population in the USA, tolerated slavery for centuries. And subsequently implemented the discriminatory Jim Crow Laws relegating blacks to second-class citizens - the residue of which remains today despite the best efforts of the likes of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement.

I have no idea what you mean by the majority of Christians - did you take a poll?

There would be NO moral values nor rules of behavior EXCEPT for the specific existence of humans. Morality does not exist in a vacuum, its origin is human biology and natural selection, not a divine mandate.

Biology and selection are blind to moral truths or reality. They could care less whether genocide is moral or not.

The Golden Rule is the embodiment of ‘reciprocity’ and ‘cooperation’ essential for the survival of a social species such as us to live in cohesive communities - as is “treating others with fairness, gentleness, graciousness, kindness, etc.” which you previously referenced.

Hence it is not surprising that variations of the Golden Rule can be found in ALL human societies throughout human history - from cultures as diverse as ancient Egypt and Confucian China. It long predates Christianity.

Of course it predates Christianity - it would since all humans are created in the image of God. Have a God given moral sense. But humans are also cruel, genocidal, and selfish. Your human biology and natural selection at work.

[seer]

A code of conduct accepted by a society that abhors and reviles homosexuality might include executing individuals who are homosexual. But is that behaviour ethical?

Why wouldn't it be ethical if the society deems it so?

Just so we are on the same page: Webster's:

1: Ethics plural in form but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2a: a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values

[shunyadragon]

And what is your point? Like I said most Christians in the West had nothing to do with slavery, and again you fail to mention that the Abolition movement was largely populated by Christians.

False, Biblically and history are a witness that Christians have been widely invloved in slaery as slave traders and owners of slavery, and use Biblical citations to justify their view.

No moral high ground here for Christianity.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Why wouldn't it be ethical if the society deems it so?

Is the "omerta" moral?

It forms part of the Mafia's "code of ethics" and comes under what that group deems to be its moral codes of conduct

There are no simple answers to these things, are there?

[Sparko]

I think it would be helpful if those (e.g. Hypatia) who want to make a distinction between moral codes and ethical codes to define what they mean by each and how they see them as different.

[rogue06]

HA HA HA HA!

That's hilarious!

It reminds me of finding this book at local thrift store entitled "Calculus - Transcendental Functions". And I thought to myself now who around here took Transcendental Functions?
I thought about buying it just for the novelty. I mean what can you really do with math and space and time?

Um... Transcendental Functions.

Personally, I think math is of da debil

[rogue06]

That comment belongs in the screwball thread.

Speaking of which...

Are you ever going to try to defend your declaring that my comment "Slavery was still going strong until Christians finally banded together to stop it." was a screwball?

[rogue06]

I think it would be helpful if those (e.g. Hypatia) who want to make a distinction between moral codes and ethical codes to define what they mean by each and how they see them as different.

Good luck with that. You have a better chance of this happening:

eacc0aa6-8f34-4d21-a85f-1cfafc18ea8c.jpg

[seer]

Is the "omerta" moral?

It forms part of the Mafia's "code of ethics" and comes under what that group deems to be its moral codes of conduct

There are no simple answers to these things, are there?

Right, it is all relative - correct?

[seer]

False, Biblically and history are a witness that Christians have been widely invloved in slaery as slave traders and owners of slavery, and use Biblical citations to justify their view.

No moral high ground here for Christianity.

Why are you still in my thread?