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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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Ancient Sources: History and Theology.

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  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    The author of Luke uses the general military term to refer to Quirinius as the governor.
    You cannot afford to believe otherwise. If you did, you would have to admit that Luke might not be in error.
    You have not answered adequately.
    The question was answered with adequate detail.


    Can you rephrase that please? The sentence you have written appears to contradict itself.
    On this you are correct.
    For the most part, my focus has been on false claims about the Biblical record. Scant few of those claims originate with secular scholarship,.
    Last edited by tabibito; 07-13-2021, 11:17 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    The outcome of those repeated demonstrations saw you contradict yourself.
    No I did not contradict myself. The author of Luke uses the general military term to refer to Quirinius as the governor.


    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    You have asked this "question" before, and I have answered it before.
    You have not answered adequately.


    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    You repeatedly demonstrate that you are oblivious to this particular blindingly obvious fact.
    Why do you feel the need to persistently state the obvious?


    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    Scant few false claims about the content of the Biblical record originate with secular scholarship, and for the most part, my focus has been on those claims.
    Can you rephrase that please? The sentence you have written appears to contradict itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    As your replies repeatedly demonstrate.
    The outcome of those repeated demonstrations saw you contradict yourself.

    What do you mean by a "variant"? Was there a Passover that lasted for 12 days and where the Paschal lobster was eaten?
    You have asked this "question" before, and I have answered it before.

    Well there is nothing like stating the blindingly obvious is there?
    You repeatedly demonstrate that you are oblivious to this particular blindingly obvious fact.

    Premised on our exchanges you simply reject secular academic contentions and historical evidence that challenges your preconceived beliefs.
    Scant few false claims about the content of the Biblical record originate with secular scholarship, and for the most part, my focus has been on those claims.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    I know very little about the fields of archaeology and less about papyrology.
    As your replies repeatedly demonstrate.

    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    You, on the other hand, did not know until a few days ago that there was more than one variant of Passover celebration in first century Judaea.
    What do you mean by a "variant"? Was there a Passover that lasted for 12 days and where the Paschal lobster was eaten?

    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    Your knowledge and understanding are far from complete, even within the limits that are available to current scholarship.
    Well there is nothing like stating the blindingly obvious is there?

    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    What I can do with a high degree of accuracy is determine when claims that are made about the Biblical record are specious.
    I would disagree. Premised on our exchanges you simply reject secular academic contentions and historical evidence that challenges your preconceived beliefs.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    You do not seem to be acquainted with the disciplines of archaeology and papyrology.

    Does the name Oxyrhynchus mean anything to you?
    I know very little about the fields of archaeology and less about papyrology. You, on the other hand, did not know until a few days ago that there was more than one variant of Passover celebration in first century Judaea. Your knowledge and understanding are far from complete, even within the limits that are available to current scholarship.

    What I can do with a high degree of accuracy is determine when claims that are made about the Biblical record are specious.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    The fact remains that there is no proof to show that he was not a Duumvir. In fact, every creditable source declares that he was.
    Inform yourself about Roman prosopography before making such uninformed comments.


    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    very nice - I'll pinch a copy for future reference. ETA Scratch that - resolution isn't good enough.
    e738c4e4-8474-481a-a134-2e31ac56c800.jpg
    I prefer the bar graph but this conveys the same info.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Sadly, atheist sources are usually secondary. The primary sources are most often well regarded theologians. Some of them are even so convincing that they fall for the nonsense themselves and opt out of Christianity.
    You do not seem to be acquainted with the disciplines of archaeology and papyrology.

    Does the name Oxyrhynchus mean anything to you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    And in the Samaritan calendar - said by the Samaritans to begin with Israel's entry to the Holy Land - 2014 was their year 3652 (which makes 2021 their year 3659) 2021 - 3659 = -1638. So, the dates derived from the Old Testament (Masoretic Text) records are probably wrong. Records of the event are not thereby demonstrated to be wrong - just the timing extrapolated from the MT text.
    The destruction of Jericho along with certain other texts in the Hebrew bible are foundation myths.

    I recommend you start to educate yourself on the known archaeological history of this region.

    Might I suggest you begin with Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman's The Bible Unearthed?

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    There are significant difference between the dating found in the Samaritan, The Masoretic and the Septuagint. I first noticed them while doing a bit of research on the patriarchs. For instance

    This would indicate a fairly fluid tradition for the exact dating that wasn't exactly set in stone.
    very nice - I'll pinch a copy for future reference. ETA Scratch that - resolution isn't good enough.
    Last edited by tabibito; 07-12-2021, 08:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    When did the interrogation by Pilate occur? Before or after Passover?
    The Biblical record itself, in each of the four gospels, declares that it was during the daylight hours of the Jewish Day of Preparation, the day before Passover according to the Temple's liturgical calendar. Anyone who CLAIMS that the Bible record is in conflict simply hasn't demonstrated enough interest to actually personally assess what those accounts declare. Either that, or the person lacks the skills necessary to pass a reading comprehension test designed for ten year old. John, thrice, explicitly declares the day of crucifixion to be the day before the Passover (John 19: 14, 31, 42.)

    When was Jesus born? During the reign of Herod the Great or during the census of Quirinius?
    Bare assertions that Luke claimed Quirinius was Prefect to the contrary, Luke states that it was during the first census held during the time that Qurinius held a command position in Syria, which was during the time of Herod the Great's reign.

    Who actually went to the tomb?
    Women at dawn, others later. Some accounts are more detailed than others.

    Did Jesus experience a bloody sweat [Luke 22.39-46] or not?
    If ­­ōsei (ωσει) is accepted to be meaningless in this sentence, Jesus sweated blood.



    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    And in the Samaritan calendar - said by the Samaritans to begin with Israel's entry to the Holy Land - 2014 was their year 3652 (which makes 2021 their year 3659) 2021 - 3659 = -1638. So, the dates derived from the Old Testament (Masoretic Text) records are probably wrong. Records of the event are not thereby demonstrated to be wrong - just the timing extrapolated from the MT text.
    There are significant difference between the dating found in the Samaritan, The Masoretic and the Septuagint. I first noticed them while doing a bit of research on the patriarchs. For instance
    This would indicate a fairly fluid tradition for the exact dating that wasn't exactly set in stone.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    Have you informed the Chief Rabbinate of Israel of your findings?
    I'm sure they are well aware of the claims. The Samaritans live right alongside them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    And in the Samaritan calendar - said by the Samaritans to begin with Israel's entry to the Holy Land - 2014 was their year 3652 (which makes 2021 their year 3659) 2021 - 3659 = -1638. So, the dates derived from the Old Testament (Masoretic Text) records are probably wrong. Records of the event are not thereby demonstrated to be wrong - just the timing extrapolated from the MT text.
    Have you informed the Chief Rabbinate of Israel of your findings?

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    From the link you provided: https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2...on-at-jericho/

    The controversy centers on the dating of the destruction of City IV at Jericho. Everyone agrees that Canaanite Jericho was destroyed in a violent, fiery manner. Not everyone agrees on the date that this happened. The first excavators, Sellin and Watzinger, who dug from 1907 to 1909, concluded that Jericho had been destroyed in the Middle Bronze Age, by at least 1600 BC.2 In the 1930’s, British archaeologist, John Garstang excavated a residential area of Jericho and concluded that the fiery destruction of the city occurred in the Late Bronze Age, ca. 1400 BC, linking it with Joshua and the Israelites.3 From 1952-58, Dame Kathleen Kenyon excavated at Jericho and dated the destruction of City IV to the end of the Middle Bronze Age, ca 1550 BC4, meaning that there was no city of Jericho for Joshua to conquer at the time the Bible describes the conquest of Canaan. More recently, archaeologist Bryant Wood has suggested that Kenyon’s analysis of the date of this destruction is incorrect, as she based her conclusions largely on the absence of Cypriot bichrome pottery.5
    And in the Samaritan calendar - said by the Samaritans to begin with Israel's entry to the Holy Land - 2014 was their year 3652 (which makes 2021 their year 3659) 2021 - 3659 = -1638. So, the dates derived from the Old Testament (Masoretic Text) records are probably wrong. Records of the event are not thereby demonstrated to be wrong - just the timing extrapolated from the MT text.
    Last edited by tabibito; 07-12-2021, 05:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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