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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Richard Dawkins stripped of 1996 Humanist of the Year Award...
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostHe compares the two.
And I've given you the Greek text,
Now you show me where Paul endorses or encourages passion - anywhere.
Last edited by seer; 05-09-2021, 12:21 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View Post
You said identical - are you backtracking now?
Originally posted by seer View PostYou gave me texts where Paul condemns passion or desire leading to sexual immorality. Nothing about in the context of marriage. ..."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostPaul appears to make a direct comparison between with sex in marriage and sex with a prostitute. What Paul intended by that has been the subject of much scholarly debate.
As noted from I Corinthians 7 Paul sees marriage as a weakness. Celibate virginity is the ideal as later texts and some ECFs would go on to argue.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Who else says that marriage is identical to sex with a prostitute? Which scholars? Stop being dishonest.
Originally posted by seer View PostAnd what does that have to do with whether sexual desire between a man and a wife is acceptable or not?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostYou could start here: Brian S Rosner, "Temple Prostitution in 1 Corinthians 6:12-20", in Novum Testamentum , [Brill, Oct., 1998, Vol. 40, pp. 336-351]
Read my earlier replies.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostOr in other words, I find it very confusing as to what exactly is being argued.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostHe compares the two.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostCan there be sexual immorality within marriage?Last edited by rogue06; 05-09-2021, 03:58 PM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Hypatia is suggesting that because Paul condemns passion or sexual desires that leads to sexual immorality that therefore passion or desire within a marriage is also unacceptable.
However, it has been suggested by some scholars that rather than examining Paul’s writing through the lens of modern sexual attitudes and common sense we might do better to look structures and ideas within the ancient world in which the absence of sex and sexuality was not only possible but preferable. Those ideas and structures were to be found in the among some ancient medical writers as well as the philosophical ideas of the Stoics. Ancient medical writers saw the dangers of sexual desire but advocated control not elimination. The Stoic philosophers on the other hand viewed sexual desire as irrational and unnatural and held the view that a strong minded person could, and should, eliminate this desire along with all the other passions. This did not mean an end to sex and marriage, more importantly it was sex without desire. The person for whom the elimination of all desires and for whom happiness was not dependent upon those things that others wished for, would find complete freedom.
Paul seems to have fallen between these two "stools" of thought regarding passion and sex. He clearly felt that, like the Stoics, a person should eliminate all desire even within marriage but he also leaned towards the ideas held by the ancient medical writers that for most people self sufficiency was unattainable, and therefore marriage was a means of guarding against those desires. In this he echoes the voices of numerous ancient moralists who advocated sex without passion as an ideal in marriage. An aphorism of Ps.-Phocylides sheds light on the influence of this anti-erotic tradition on Paul: “Do not deliver yourself wholly unto unbridled sensuality towards your wife, for ‘eros’ is not a god, but a passion destructive of all.” Paul expressed the unbridled character of love and the dishonorable loss of self-control that invariably followed with the key philosophical term: passion (πάθος]
[see Frederickson D,Passionless Sex in I Thessalonians 4:4-5; Martin D, Sex and the Single Saviour: Gender and Sexuality in Biblical Interpretation]
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostOr in other words, I find it very confusing as to what exactly is being argued."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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