Richard Dawkins stripped of 1996 Humanist of the Year Award...

[Psychic Missile]

It's a long time coming. Ever since elevatorgate (and earlier to those paying attention) he's shown himself to be a product of his time in all ways but his religion.

[siam]

People have a right to identify as they choose.

Other people have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to accept your self-designation.

Suppose we presume that an identity is an inherent right---therefore a nation-state has limits on this right. Gender-identification is just one of many types of identification---naming customs are also identification.
Should persons have the right to retain/change their designated names upon marriage, adoption, changes in nationality/religion.........etc? (or should govt create rules/laws on the matter?)
What of changes in cultural identities (Australian of African heritage, Asian American, Christian-European...etc...) or gender-identities (...Bisexual, Asexual, Homosexual, Heterosexual, trans...etc...)
Are there identity categories that should not be a choice? or all identity categories can be a personal choice as an inherent right?
if it is an inherent right---should there be rules/obligation regarding such a right---if so, any ideas?
What role, if any, should a state play in the right to identity?
Can/should ... a gender-identity neutral system /society exist?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

A bunch of people castigating someone for forsaking science in favor of personal prejudice isn't fascism or a cult, it's the normal course of cultural development. Fascism would be codifying that prejudice for the sake of harming those whom one is prejudiced against. A cult would be believing in common falsehoods easily proven wrong by the most basic study.

We may have to disagree on this but I find the recent attitude among many towards J K Rowling, Germaine Greer, Suzanne Moore, and now [apparently] Richard Dawkins quite reprehensible. There appears to be a vocal percentage [?minority?] among the progressive and/or Left that will countenance no dissent on trans-gender politics.

The expression of a differing opinion concerning such complex issues should be able to expressed without the individual being accused of "hate" speech or transphobia.

[siam]

Racheal Dolezal identifying as Black---

Apparently....Arabs are considered "White" in the U.S. ? (... in 1943 all Arabs and North African were considered "White" by the Federal government)
This meant that during Jim Crow era ( until 1965?) ---a few African-American muslims (musicians) could pass for "White" and go into white spaces dressed as Arab....I can't find the link---but if anyone is interested will look for it.

[rogue06]

It's a long time coming. Ever since elevatorgate (and earlier to those paying attention) he's shown himself to be a product of his time in all ways but his religion.

Because as everyone knows anyone older than you are is unmitigatedly, irreversibly evil.

[Psychic Missile]

We may have to disagree on this but I find the recent attitude among many towards J K Rowling, Germaine Greer, Suzanne Moore, and now [apparently] Richard Dawkins quite reprehensible. There appears to be a vocal percentage [?minority?] among the progressive and/or Left that will countenance no dissent on trans-gender politics.

The expression of a differing opinion concerning such complex issues should be able to expressed without the individual being accused of "hate" speech or transphobia.

It's as much a differing opinion as "people choose to be gay", but worse in that it opposes treatment recommended by medical professionals, so I suppose it's also quite like "vaccines cause autism". Either way, it's not really something up to debate.

[Psychic Missile]

Because as everyone knows anyone older than you are is unmitigatedly, irreversibly evil.

Societies become more liberal over time. Some learn and grow with society. Others were progressive for their time and have no need to grow.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

It's as much a differing opinion as "people choose to be gay", but worse in that it opposes treatment recommended by medical professionals, so I suppose it's also quite like "vaccines cause autism". Either way, it's not really something up to debate.

I am not entirely sure that physicians going along with the wishes of pubescent or prepubescent children who want to undergo hormone therapy because they consider themselves to be the wrong gender is necessarily beneficial.

The simple fact is that a trans man is not a woman. That person [at least at the present level of medical science] cannot menstruate or carry a child. I also agree that there should be some places and spaces where only those born as women should have access.

[rogue06]

I am not entirely sure that physicians going along with the wishes of pubescent or prepubescent children who want to undergo hormone therapy because they consider themselves to be the wrong gender is necessarily beneficial.

We actually agree on something here.

This is the same age that you'll find kids claiming to be a unicorn and the like

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

We actually agree on something here.

This is the same age that you'll find kids claiming to be a unicorn and the like

I thought we also agreed in some respects on what we both find humorous.

I am concerned that there is a serious risk that children and young teens are being influenced/affected by social media and peer pressure on this issue and that it may [for many] constitute little more than a fashion fad.

[rogue06]

I thought we also agreed in some respects on what we both find humorous.

I am concerned that there is a serious risk that children and young teens are being influenced/affected by social media and peer pressure on this issue and that it may [for many] constitute little more than a fashion fad.

That's it. Who are you and what have you done to H_A? You are being far too reasonable here.

Either that or it is time to keep an eye out for these guys




4Horsemen.gif

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

That's it. Who are you and what have you done to H_A? You are being far too reasonable here.

I consider myself to be a perfectly reasonable correspondent. That you and I do not always agree on issues is, of course, another matter.

[Catholicity]

We may have to disagree on this but I find the recent attitude among many towards J K Rowling, Germaine Greer, Suzanne Moore, and now [apparently] Richard Dawkins quite reprehensible. There appears to be a vocal percentage [?minority?] among the progressive and/or Left that will countenance no dissent on trans-gender politics.

The expression of a differing opinion concerning such complex issues should be able to expressed without the individual being accused of "hate" speech or transphobia.

Frankly you are right. It is as much of a cult as heaven’s gate. To disagree means to be outcast by the majority. On this issue one is only allowed to accept their dogma and no free thought is allowed. However it was only 8 years ago that a person had to be treated for underlying psychological issues so that they wouldn’t do anything impulsive. So much for that in the us

[rogue06]

We may have to disagree on this but I find the recent attitude among many towards J K Rowling, Germaine Greer, Suzanne Moore, and now [apparently] Richard Dawkins quite reprehensible. There appears to be a vocal percentage [?minority?] among the progressive and/or Left that will countenance no dissent on trans-gender politics.

The expression of a differing opinion concerning such complex issues should be able to expressed without the individual being accused of "hate" speech or transphobia.

One of the quickest way one can get kicked off of Social Media here in the U.S. is do the sort of things those you listed have done. We haven't experienced anything like this since the age of McCarthyism

[Catholicity]

One of the quickest way one can get kicked off of Social Media here in the U.S. is do the sort of things those you listed have done. We haven't experienced anything like this since the age of McCarthyism

You are right. This the new “red scare”