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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    If you are discussing murder under its legal definition the answer is already there.
    I was not speaking of legal definitions, but moral truths. That was the discussion with Star when you put your nose in. Get with the program.


    Do you not think Paul wrote in Greek?
    Tell me how the Greek changes anything I just quoted? Where does I Corinthians 6:15-17 "liken marriage to an encounter with a prostitute?"



    I am not discussing πορνεία.

    The words I quoted from the Greek are πάθει [passion] and ‘ριθυμίας [desire/lust]. In those verses Paul condemns passion and desire/lust in sex, even in the context of marriage. In that regard Paul echoes the ideas of various ancient moralists who advocated sex without passion. Hence his dour comment in I Corinthians 7.3 that the husband and wife give one another their "όφειλήν [debt/duty].
    Paul condemns lust, or desire or passion in the context of sexual immorality. And says nothing about it in the context of marriage. And nothing you said or quoted changes that.

    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post

      I was not speaking of legal definitions, but moral truths. That was the discussion with Star when you put your nose in. Get with the program.
      The word murder has a definite legal meaning. That is why there are variations in law codes. You need to find another word.


      Originally posted by seer View Post

      Tell me how the Greek changes anything I just quoted? Where does I Corinthians 6:15-17 "liken marriage to an encounter with a prostitute?"
      οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι τὰ σώματα ὑμῶν μέλη Χριστοῦ ἐστιν; ἄρας οὖν τὰ μέλη τοῦ Χριστοῦ ποιήσω πόρνης1 μέλη; μὴ γένοιτο. 16 ἢ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι ὁ κολλώμενο ς2 τῇ πόρνῃ1 ἓν σῶμά ἐστιν; ἔσονται γάρ, φησίν, οἱ δύο εἰς σάρ κα μίαν. 17 ὁ δὲ κολλώμενος2 τῷ κυρίῳ ἓν πνεῦμά ἐστιν.
      [Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Should I therefore take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For it is said, “The two shall be one flesh. But anyone united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.”]


      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Paul condemns lust, or desire or passion in the context of sexual immorality. And says nothing about it in the context of marriage.And nothing you said or quoted changes that.
      You are free to find me the text from Paul where he writes positively about passion [in any form] including in marriage.
      Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 05-06-2021, 09:08 AM.
      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        The word murder has a definite legal meaning. That is why there are variations in law codes. You need to find another word.
        That was not the discussion! Do you believe that there are universal moral truths? Yes or no?


        [Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Should I therefore take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For it is said, ;The two shall be one flesh. But anyone united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.]
        Good grief woman! That is exactly what I quoted! What is your point?

        You are free to find me the text from Paul where he writes positively about passion [in any form] including in marriage.
        NO - you made the claim that sex in marriage is or should be passionless! It is on you to demonstrate that. You haven't and can't!

        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post







          Paul condemns lust, or desire or passion in the context of sexual immorality. And says nothing about it in the context of marriage. And nothing you said or quoted changes that.
          Just a quick question here, but as a Christian, do you really have to be married, as in legally married to have sex? What did Jesus actually say about this?

          Now i'm not talking about getting on some F-site and hooking up for a one night stand, but rather something more meaningful and passionate with a close friend?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

            Just a quick question here, but as a Christian, do you really have to be married, as in legally married to have sex? What did Jesus actually say about this?

            Now i'm not talking about getting on some F-site and hooking up for a one night stand, but rather something more meaningful and passionate with a close friend?
            There is no model for sex outside of the covenant of marriage in the New Testament.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

              Just a quick question here, but as a Christian, do you really have to be married, as in legally married to have sex? What did Jesus actually say about this?

              Now i'm not talking about getting on some F-site and hooking up for a one night stand, but rather something more meaningful and passionate with a close friend?
              If it is outside of marriage it is "fornication"

              Scripture Verse: I Thessalonians 4:3

              For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

              © Copyright Original Source



              Numerous versions (KJV, ASV, ERV, etc.) substitute "fornication" for "immorality" and the Young's Literal Translation uses the word "whoredom."

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • I was referring to passionate love making with someone you have a meaningful connection with.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  If it is outside of marriage it is "fornication"
                  Underneath the arches!




                  "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post

                    That was not the discussion! Do you believe that there are universal moral truths? Yes or no?
                    The word murder has a definite legal meaning. You need to find a different word.


                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    Good grief woman! That is exactly what I quoted! What is your point?
                    I thought you would have picked up the connection with Genesis 2.24 "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh" and I Corinthians 6.16 "Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For it is said, ;The two shall be one flesh."

                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    you made the claim that sex in marriage is or should be passionless!
                    I never made any claim. I pointed out that Paul viewed all passion, including within sex in marriage, with opprobrium.
                    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      The word murder has a definite legal meaning. You need to find a different word.
                      So I guess that is a no. You don't believe in universal moral truths.

                      I thought you would have picked up the connection with Genesis 2.24 "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh" and I Corinthians 6.16 "Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For it is said, ;The two shall be one flesh."
                      He is saying that when a man and a woman have sexual congress they become one flesh. He is not comparing prostitution with marriage...

                      I never made any claim. I pointed out that Paul viewed all passion, including within sex in marriage, with opprobrium.
                      That is a lie. Paul never speaks about whether passion is acceptable in marriage or not. You just made that up...

                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                        I was referring to passionate love making with someone you have a meaningful connection with.
                        Not acceptable - period, full stop...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Many knew back then that the behavior was wrong and spoke out against it, and as seer has already informed you, it was mostly Christians who were responsible for finally being able to bring an end to slavery in the West (it is still relatively common in a number of areas where Islam is influential). So, yes, it did take a long time to get the majority to listen.
                          Slavery and racial discrimination were accepted and practiced for centuries in Christian-majority countries and only came to an end as social values evolved and changed. Although in the USA it took the Civil War and the repeal of the Jim Crow Laws in 1964 before it was finally achieved – at least technically.

                          Humans have always done pretty much what they want and find ways to rationalize it later. It is our way.
                          Indeed. The bible has been made to reinforce what the society of the day believes at any given period of history.

                          Such as the butchering of unwanted babies that those on the left (including liberal Christians) declare is their "right" to do.
                          Emotive, inflammatory language aside the point at which a fetus is granted equal rights of a citizen has varied throughout Judeo/Christianity. Currently it is accepted by two thirds of the population in Christian-majority USA to be when the fetus has become a viable being – as per Roe v Wade.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            So I guess that is a no. You don't believe in universal moral truths.
                            You need to redefine your term.



                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            He is saying that when a man and a woman have sexual congress they become one flesh. He is not comparing prostitution with marriage.
                            Explain what you understand by I Corinthians 6.16.


                            [QUOTE=seer;n1263703That is a lie. Paul never speaks about whether passion is acceptable in marriage or not. You just made that up...

                            [/QUOTE] Read for comprehension. Paul viewed all passion, including within sex in marriage, with opprobrium.

                            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              You need to redefine your term.
                              Again, that is a no...


                              Explain what you understand by I Corinthians 6.16.
                              I just did. When a man has sex with a woman, whether a wife or a harlot or a girlfriend they become one flesh.


                              Read for comprehension. Paul viewed all passion, including within sex in marriage, with opprobrium.
                              Again you are not telling the truth. Paul never says that sexual desire or passion for one's spouse is a moral wrong. Only with illegitimate sexual acts. You made that up. If not list the text.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                Slavery and racial discrimination were accepted and practiced for centuries in Christian-majority countries and only came to an end as social values evolved and changed. Although in the USA it took the Civil War and the repeal of the Jim Crow Laws in 1964 before it was finally achieved – at least technically.


                                Indeed. The bible has been made to reinforce what the society of the day believes at any given period of history.


                                Emotive, inflammatory language aside the point at which a fetus is granted equal rights of a citizen has varied throughout Judeo/Christianity. Currently it is accepted by two thirds of the population in Christian-majority USA to be when the fetus has become a viable being – as per Roe v Wade.
                                Slavery was still going strong until Christians finally banded together to stop it. Look at any abolitionist movement and you'll find Christians in the forefront. That is an indisputable fact that you can either ignore or seek to minimize but that won't alter reality. Without Christians leading the way there is no telling how widespread slavery would still be

                                And pointing out that abortion is widely accepted today, resulting in the murder of, according to the World Health Organization (WHO),125,000 innocent lives each and every day is exactly what future generations will condemn us for.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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