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Early propaganda war between Christians and pagans?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I was sure he was active during the period being discussed, but was mistaken. He had died 20 years earlier in 270 A.D.

    This could explain why he wasn't front and center of the discussion.
    I've seen c. 310 and 305.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. Ė St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #17
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      I've seen c. 310 and 305.


      Disregard.

      For whatever reason I looked up Plotinus.

      I guess, being I just read some stuff about him and Neoplatonism the other day, I must have had him on the brain or something.

      So yeah, I was initially correct in noting that he was active during part of the period in question (290 and 313 A.D), so it is unusual that he doesn't even get a nod -- at least in the article.



      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #18
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        You'd think in the list of "most important anti-Christian writers" he'd be at the top. As far as I recall he easily got the most attention from Christian writers in response.
        Do not forget Celsus.
        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          Do not forget Celsus.
          Now Celsus was definitely well before the 290 and 313 A.D, although his influence cannot be denied in that Origen's rebuttal of the formers treatise was around 70 years later it came out and yet Origen still chose to address it directly to Celsus himself by titling it Contra Celsus.
          Last edited by rogue06; 04-20-2021, 01:40 PM.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Now Celsus was definitely well before the 290 and 313 A.D, although his influence cannot be denied in that Origen's rebuttal of the formers treatise was around 70 years later it came out and yet Origen still chose to address it directly to Celsus himself by titling it Contra Celsus.
            Please cease this mansplaining. I have no idea whom you are trying to impress.
            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              Please cease this mansplaining. I have no idea whom you are trying to impress.
              The article makes it clear that the period under discussion was from 290 and 313 A.D but for some strange reason you felt it necessary to insert a mention of Celsus who wrote around 170 A.D. -- well over a century earlier. I simply explained why he would have not been included or at the least played a prominent role here.


              Your ego seems to demand that you believe folks feel a need to impress you. Believe me, I have seen absolutely nothing whatsoever that would in anyway cause me to want to impress you.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Do not forget Celsus.
                I have a copy of Wilken's The Christians as the Romans Saw Them, which is probably a better overview of the topic than the book under discussion.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. Ė St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  The article makes it clear that the period under discussion was from 290 and 313 A.D but for some strange reason you felt it necessary to insert a mention of Celsus who wrote around 170 A.D.
                  The author is looking at the late third and early fourth centuries as the period of propaganda. Do you imagine that earlier anti-Christian texts were somehow ignored because they were too old and out of date? The work also deals with the sermon by Augustine of Hippo who was not born until 354 CE.

                  "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    I have a copy of Wilken's The Christians as the Romans Saw Them, which is probably a better overview of the topic than the book under discussion.
                    Have you read the book under discussion?
                    "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      The author is looking at the late third and early fourth centuries as the period of propaganda. Do you imagine that earlier anti-Christian texts were somehow ignored because they were too old and out of date? The work also deals with the sermon by Augustine of Hippo who was not born until 354 CE.
                      The singular naughty swine and I were discussing anti-Christian polemists who would have been current and active during the period the author describes as the "propaganda war" which and dates as having "occurred between roughly AD290 and 313." Hence the discussion concerning the apparent exclusion of Porphyry.


                      Looks like you needed all of this mansplained to you after all

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        The singular naughty swine and I were discussing anti-Christian polemists who would have been current and active during the period the author describes as the "propaganda war" which and dates as having "occurred between roughly AD290 and 313." Hence the discussion concerning the apparent exclusion of Porphyry.


                        Looks like you needed all of this mansplained to you after all
                        Your rambling discussions have no bearing on the work as neither of you appear to have read it yet.
                        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          Your rambling discussions have no bearing on the work as neither of you appear to have read it yet.
                          The one work hasn't been released but if you are referring to Celsus' True Doctrine, nobody has for well over a thousand years as the work is lost and only known in snippets preserved by folks like Origen.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            The one work hasn't been released
                            Then take my earlier advice.

                            Read it and then offer your remarks.

                            Nor do we have Celsus in "snippets" as you contend.

                            Origen abbreviates and omits passages of his opponent's work with some regularity but that notwithstanding a majority of scholars would put the percentage of Celsus work made accessible by Origen at around seventy percent. [see R. Joseph Hoffmann, Celsus on the True Doctrine: A Discourse Against the Christians.


                            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

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