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Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    So they invented it. Whether right or wrong true or not.
    I wouldn't use the word "invent".

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    I would guess generations of Buddhists created it.
    So they invented it. Whether right or wrong true or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    If anyone thinks that atheism/atheists lack(s) a moral compass or that atheism is synonymous with nihilism, they haven't done even the most basic investigation into atheism or really any academic moral philosophy.
    That is silly, there is no standard atheistic view on morality or nihilism. Just individual opinions of atheists.

    Leave a comment:


  • Psychic Missile
    replied
    If anyone thinks that atheism/atheists lack(s) a moral compass or that atheism is synonymous with nihilism, they haven't done even the most basic investigation into atheism or really any academic moral philosophy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    But where does that system come from, what decided that some behaviors are acceptable while others are not to reach Nirvana? These are at bottom moral questions, what or who designed this moral system?
    I would guess generations of Buddhists created it.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    Well yeah. It would be a god of sorts then wouldn't it. Everything, including the entire process and series of cycles of death and rebirth would be their equivalent of God. Why would there be a need to extract and isolate any conception of a monotheistic God in that belief system?
    But where does that system come from, what decided that some behaviors are acceptable while others are not to reach Nirvana? These are at bottom moral questions, what or who designed this moral system?

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Well think about it. You go through a series cycles (death and rebirth) to learn particular behaviors and responses. When you gain pure enlightenment you reach Nirvana. Now ask yourself, what designed this system? What decided that some behaviors are acceptable while others are not? If not a mind akin to a god, then what?
    Well yeah. It would be a god of sorts then wouldn't it. Everything, including the entire process and series of cycles of death and rebirth would be their equivalent of God. Why would there be a need to extract and isolate any conception of a monotheistic God in that belief system?

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    Thanks. But why would they build an entire culture and tradition around something that doesn't make sense?
    Well think about it. You go through a series cycles (death and rebirth) to learn particular behaviors and responses. When you gain pure enlightenment you reach Nirvana. Now ask yourself, what designed this system? What decided that some behaviors are acceptable while others are not? If not a mind akin to a god, then what?

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    If I remember correctly some forms of Buddhism believe in an after life sans a god. But it does not make sense.
    Thanks. But why would they build an entire culture and tradition around something that doesn't make sense?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post
    Whether the rich guy is doing anything immoral may depend on who you ask.
    Exactly. For the atheist, there are no objective standards of right and wrong, no objective source of moral obligation. It's nothing more than personal preference, and whether one is a wise man or fool, all will suffer the exact same fate in the end: death and oblivion.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-10-2021, 10:45 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    Interesting! Thanks for the reply! Could you point me to some further reading on this subject?
    If I remember correctly some forms of Buddhism believe in an after life sans a god. But it does not make sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    You're confusing atheism and materialism again. One can be an atheist while thinking an afterlife is more probable than not - I'm such a person.

    .
    Interesting! Thanks for the reply! Could you point me to some further reading on this subject?
    Last edited by Machinist; 04-10-2021, 06:02 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion. And don't count on your "legacy" preserving your memory. You'll likely be forgotten about within three generations.
    As will most of us. Christians included. It is Intimations of mortality, to misquote Wordsworth.

    One of the most poignant things about flea market stalls is the boxes of old photographs or the "images of ghosts" if you want to wax poetic. Or take a walk around an old church graveyard, probably something not overly easy to find in the USA.

    In such graveyards there will be collapsed headstones where the carving is so worn as to be illegible or where the dedications can still be faintly read to the beloved wife of, the loving husband to, or the child called before their time.

    Who were they? Nobody knows and no one any longer cares.
    Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 04-10-2021, 05:30 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Yes. For instance, giving most of your earnings to charity and living in borderline poverty is less pleasant than hording your wealth and living in luxury.
    Which is the injunction in Mark 10 that Jesus gave to the young man who lacked one thing to inherit eternal life, "go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion.
    You're confusing atheism and materialism again. One can be an atheist while thinking an afterlife is more probable than not - I'm such a person.



    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
    I am an Atheist...

    ...and I recognize that I have no moral obligation in the least to follow any laws.

    I speak for myself here. I have no moral compass now. There are no Absolutes. Everything is relative. We're all just dust in the wind.

    What shall I do today? What shall I do?

    I'd like to go to the beach for a month or two, but something is telling me that it's best I go to work instead.

    Since nothing really matters anymore, does anyone have pointers on how to navigate here on earth without a moral compass?

    Thank you.
    Without necessarily agreeing with your claims here, I'll give you this general observation:

    I live in a country that has as many, if not more, atheists than religious people. In general, with regard to their behavior and character etc, I observe no difference whatsoever between the two groups. When I make a new friend, it can take a few years for me to learn whether they are religious, and that only happens if they explicitly tell me what their religious views are (religion here is considered quite a private matter, so it's generally regarded as fairly rude to either ask someone about their religious views or start talking about your own)... there is never anything in their behavior or character that would clue me on whether they are religious or not.

    So the obvious answer to me with regard to how you should act as an atheist is: Same as you acted as a Christian.

    Leave a comment:

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