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Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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I am an Atheist...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post
    Except that it does matter, both to the person making the choice, and to other people who will be impacted by the choice.
    You're confusing personal preference with moral value. Sure, the guy living in a box on the street corner might prefer that the rich guy living in a mansion give him a helping hand, but if atheism is true then the rich guy is not actually doing anything immoral by hoarding his wealth and living in selfish luxury.

    If there is no God then there are no wrong choices in life. Why don't atheists happily embrace this fact?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      If there is no God then there are no wrong choices in life. Why don't atheists happily embrace this fact?
      Oh, i'm embracing it! It's like i've been saved. Gonna see where this ride goes!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Machinist View Post

        Oh, i'm embracing it! It's like i've been saved. Gonna see where this ride goes!
        The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion. And don't count on your "legacy" preserving your memory. You'll likely be forgotten about within three generations.

        Scripture Verse: Ecclesiastes 2

        I hated all my toil in which I toil under the sun, seeing that I must leave it to the man who will come after me, and who knows whether he will be wise or a fool? Yet he will be master of all for which I toiled and used my wisdom under the sun. This also is vanity.

        © Copyright Original Source

        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion.
          That'd be bad news for Christians and other theists too.
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

          mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

          Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
          Mountain Man: … this is how liberals argue these days, with labels instead of ideas.
          Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

          Comment


          • #20
            I would rather live. I'd rather when I close my eyes in death here, my eyes will open in the hereafter.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              You're confusing personal preference with moral value.
              You're confusing our different views about the foundations of morality with me being wrong.

              Sure, the guy living in a box on the street corner might prefer that the rich guy living in a mansion give him a helping hand, but if atheism is true then the rich guy is not actually doing anything immoral by hoarding his wealth and living in selfish luxury.
              Whether the rich guy is doing anything immoral may depend on who you ask. A pretty hefty portion of our society does not feel that the rich guy is obligated to give away any of his money to help the poor.

              If there is no God then there are no wrong choices in life. Why don't atheists happily embrace this fact?
              Because (most) atheists disagree with you about whether the absence of a God means that there are no wrong choices in life.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion
                That's only "bad news" in comparison to the claims of theists, for which there isn't any really good evidence.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion.
                  Indeed. The same applies to everyone, including those who like to believe, without good reason, in post-mortem survival. But there is no evidence of survival beyond the physical activity of the brain.

                  And don't count on your "legacy" preserving your memory. You'll likely be forgotten about within three generations.
                  Possibly. But it hardly matters when one longer exists.

                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion.
                    You're confusing atheism and materialism again. One can be an atheist while thinking an afterlife is more probable than not - I'm such a person.



                    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                    I am an Atheist...

                    ...and I recognize that I have no moral obligation in the least to follow any laws.

                    I speak for myself here. I have no moral compass now. There are no Absolutes. Everything is relative. We're all just dust in the wind.

                    What shall I do today? What shall I do?

                    I'd like to go to the beach for a month or two, but something is telling me that it's best I go to work instead.

                    Since nothing really matters anymore, does anyone have pointers on how to navigate here on earth without a moral compass?

                    Thank you.
                    Without necessarily agreeing with your claims here, I'll give you this general observation:

                    I live in a country that has as many, if not more, atheists than religious people. In general, with regard to their behavior and character etc, I observe no difference whatsoever between the two groups. When I make a new friend, it can take a few years for me to learn whether they are religious, and that only happens if they explicitly tell me what their religious views are (religion here is considered quite a private matter, so it's generally regarded as fairly rude to either ask someone about their religious views or start talking about your own)... there is never anything in their behavior or character that would clue me on whether they are religious or not.

                    So the obvious answer to me with regard to how you should act as an atheist is: Same as you acted as a Christian.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      Yes. For instance, giving most of your earnings to charity and living in borderline poverty is less pleasant than hording your wealth and living in luxury.
                      Which is the injunction in Mark 10 that Jesus gave to the young man who lacked one thing to inherit eternal life, "go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.

                      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        The bad news for atheists is that it goes nowhere. You live until you die, and then oblivion. And don't count on your "legacy" preserving your memory. You'll likely be forgotten about within three generations.
                        As will most of us. Christians included. It is Intimations of mortality, to misquote Wordsworth.

                        One of the most poignant things about flea market stalls is the boxes of old photographs or the "images of ghosts" if you want to wax poetic. Or take a walk around an old church graveyard, probably something not overly easy to find in the USA.

                        In such graveyards there will be collapsed headstones where the carving is so worn as to be illegible or where the dedications can still be faintly read to the beloved wife of, the loving husband to, or the child called before their time.

                        Who were they? Nobody knows and no one any longer cares.
                        Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 04-10-2021, 05:30 AM.
                        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          You're confusing atheism and materialism again. One can be an atheist while thinking an afterlife is more probable than not - I'm such a person.

                          .
                          Interesting! Thanks for the reply! Could you point me to some further reading on this subject?
                          Last edited by Machinist; 04-10-2021, 06:02 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                            Interesting! Thanks for the reply! Could you point me to some further reading on this subject?
                            If I remember correctly some forms of Buddhism believe in an after life sans a god. But it does not make sense.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                              Whether the rich guy is doing anything immoral may depend on who you ask.
                              Exactly. For the atheist, there are no objective standards of right and wrong, no objective source of moral obligation. It's nothing more than personal preference, and whether one is a wise man or fool, all will suffer the exact same fate in the end: death and oblivion.
                              Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-10-2021, 10:45 AM.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by seer View Post

                                If I remember correctly some forms of Buddhism believe in an after life sans a god. But it does not make sense.
                                Thanks. But why would they build an entire culture and tradition around something that doesn't make sense?

                                Comment

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