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Story of creation: Genesis.

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  • Story of creation: Genesis.

    The Genesis story of Creation is describing our own galaxy at most, as if it were the beginning of the universe. The earth for instance, our earth, didn't exist until 10 billion years after the beginning of the universe. There are billions of galaxies with billions of solar systems that existed prior to the forming of our own galaxy and we know this because the light by which we see them took billions more years to reach the earth than the 4.5 billion years that earth itself has existed. In other words we are seeing other galaxies as they existed billions of years before the earth itself existed. This is obvious evidence that the story is not true or God inspired but is rather a man made story based on the belief that what they saw of the universe was all that there was. I know that there is one here who likes to argue that although stars may form naturally now, the first star, according to him, was created, and that first star he assumes to be the one God placed in the sky above the earth at the beginning of creation. Well we know that there are billions of stars that have existed many billions of years before our own star existed so regardless whether his argument were true it would have nothing to do with what he is trying to assert. But i regress. The main point is that no matter how one tries to interpret Genesis, i.e. creation in seven days, seven thousand days, seven million days, or whatever, our galaxy, our solar system, our sun and earth wasn't the beginning of creation, it came long after, billions and billions of years after the birth of many other galaxies.

  • #2
    Where do you get the idea that the Genesis account relates to just this galaxy? Your time frame is okay, but how does that suggest our galaxy as opposed to everything as the account states?
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi JimL,

      Actually the account is 6 days. The seventh God rested.

      And on the fourth day it says: "God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars." -- Genesis 1:16, NRSV

      The KJV has, "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also." Notice "he made" in italics. And that the NRSV does not include those two words. That is because it does not say that in the Hebrew regarding the stars appearing on the fourth day.

      It is interesting that if the Sun gave its first light, when God said, "Let there be light." There is what is known as the solar wind. It has a mean velocity of about 500 Km/s or 310 miles/s. At 93 million miles that solar wind could blow away the debris making the Sun and Moon to become visible as distinct lights by the fourth day.
      . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Hi JimL,

        Actually the account is 6 days. The seventh God rested.

        And on the fourth day it says: "God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars." -- Genesis 1:16, NRSV

        The KJV has, "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also." Notice "he made" in italics. And that the NRSV does not include those two words. That is because it does not say that in the Hebrew regarding the stars appearing on the fourth day.

        It is interesting that if the Sun gave its first light, when God said, "Let there be light." There is what is known as the solar wind. It has a mean velocity of about 500 Km/s or 310 miles/s. At 93 million miles that solar wind could blow away the debris making the Sun and Moon to become visible as distinct lights by the fourth day.
        Well unfortunately the bible gets that wrong as well. God creates the earth before creating the sun, but in truth the sun forms before the planets, not after them, which they then end up orbiting.

        Comment


        • #5
          Perhaps if you stopped trying the read the Genesis account as if it was an attempt at a modern scientific description of creation - which it isn't - you might not find so much fault with it.

          I think the point of the account is to show God as supreme, Creator and Maker of all - perhaps as a counterpart to contemporary creation myths.
          ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
            Perhaps if you stopped trying the read the Genesis account as if it was an attempt at a modern scientific description of creation - which it isn't - you might not find so much fault with it.

            I think the point of the account is to show God as supreme, Creator and Maker of all - perhaps as a counterpart to contemporary creation myths
            So the Creation narratives are simply allegory. I can live with that. But what are "contemporary creation myths"?
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              So the Creation narratives are simply allegory.
              That's not what I said.

              Originally posted by Tassman
              I can live with that. But what are "contemporary creation myths"?
              Creation myths that other peoples of the time had.
              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

              Comment


              • #8
                The problem with Genesis is that it was believed literally by Orthodox Christianity for most of it's history, and the problematic controversy of it's literal 'truth' was only confronted by the progress of 'secular' scientific knowledge. A sizable number if not most Christians in the USA, and many Muslims still believe in a literal Genesis. Jews have dodged the bullet with severe pragmatism and Midrash. They also do ot have to face the testimony of the NT where doctrine and dogma is anchored in the belief that Genesis is literal. The problems of a literal Genesis are overwhelming, including the relatively small size of our universe, and an awkward young scenario of the creation of our solar system. The problem of taking various fix and patch views of Genesis to fit science, is that is humanist reform trying to Jerrymeander the scripture to make it comfortable with a modern world view. There are too many contradictions and selective reading of scripture to make things work.
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-06-2014, 08:08 AM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Since there is absolutely no size given in Genesis for the universe, there is no conflict there. shunyadragon, you are manufacturing conflict where there is none. This isn't very honest.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                    Since there is absolutely no size given in Genesis for the universe, there is no conflict there. shunyadragon, you are manufacturing conflict where there is none. This isn't very honest.
                    This might interest you.
                    http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      Sorry, but trolling is not interesting.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        Sorry, but trolling is not interesting.
                        Please don’t feel you have to apologize to me.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          Well unfortunately the bible gets that wrong as well. God creates the earth before creating the sun, but in truth the sun forms before the planets, not after them, which they then end up orbiting.
                          You are arguing an interpretation. The material that makes up the Sun would have been there with its Earth and its debris in orbit, along with all the other matter which makes of the solar system.

                          Now there are young earth creationists. (I do not fit in that camp.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
                          And there are old earth creationists. (I also do not fit in that camp.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism

                          To YEC I'm regarded to be little different from OEC.
                          http://www.icr.org/article/4535/
                          To OEC I'm a YEC.
                          http://www.reasons.org/articles/how-...ntalism-part-1
                          http://www.oldearth.org/
                          . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            Since there is absolutely no size given in Genesis for the universe, there is no conflict there. shunyadragon, you are manufacturing conflict where there is none. This isn't very honest.
                            Very honest, no manufacturing conflict, and historical as far as how the universe was viewed by Christians for 1500 years after Christ. Historically the Christian view was the earth was the center of the universe as firstfloor's reference indicated, and it was less then 10,000 years old. Roman philosopher Leucretius was right, but the justification for his view had to wait more then 1600+ years to be confirmed.

                            Your accusations of trolling are self inflicting. Firstfloor's reference is real and accurate.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-06-2014, 01:14 PM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              You are arguing an interpretation. The material that makes up the Sun would have been there with its Earth and its debris in orbit, along with all the other matter which makes of the solar system.

                              Now there are young earth creationists. (I do not fit in that camp.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism
                              And there are old earth creationists. (I also do not fit in that camp.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism

                              To YEC I'm regarded to be little different from OEC.
                              http://www.icr.org/article/4535/
                              To OEC I'm a YEC.
                              http://www.reasons.org/articles/how-...ntalism-part-1
                              http://www.oldearth.org/
                              YEC Creationism has been the belief of virtually all of Orthodox Christianity up until the last several hundred years. OEC and Theistic Evolution and other compatible views in harmony with Methodological Naturalism remain relatively recent developments as humanist reforms in response to the secular advancement of science.

                              Biblically the earth is fixed and does not move, and it is the center of the universe. See my next reference.
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-06-2014, 01:54 PM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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