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Racism, Perfectly Normal?

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post

    Because evolution created us with some really nasty behaviors that are not going away anytime soon?
    Ultimately though. Help me out here. Thousands of years from now. If evolution is occurring, and it's making man more moral, then ultimately, wouldn't it result in a Utopia?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

      Ultimately though. Help me out here. Thousands of years from now. If evolution is occurring, and it's making man more moral, then ultimately, wouldn't it result in a Utopia?
      Not necessarily, how do we know that the process won't make us more selfish and cruel? Actually I think we are more selfish than my parents generation (depression/WW2 era). So it may be happening already.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post

        Not necessarily, how do we know that the process won't make us more selfish and cruel? Actually I think we are more selfish than my parents generation (depression/WW2 era). So it may be happening already.
        Ok. I see where it's going. It seems that Tassman is implying that it's going, or has been going in a single direction, toward greater cooperation, empathy, etc. And that it is evidenced by more encompassing treaties between tribes, nations, etc.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

          Ok. I see where it's going. It seems that Tassman is implying that it's going, or has been going in a single direction, toward greater cooperation, empathy, etc. And that it is evidenced by more encompassing treaties between tribes, nations, etc.
          Tassman tends to smuggle in an idea of moral improvement. Moral progress. Which doesn't exist in atheism...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

            Why could it not exist in reality?
            Because ‘Utopia’ is defined as a perfect society in which ALL people work in total harmony and are happy. But this is unrealistic in practice in that many people are poorly socialized or genetically or emotionally flawed. So, whilst we can aspire to greater unity and equal rights for all, there will always be the need for law enforcement and a justice system.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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            • Originally posted by seer View Post

              Tassman tends to smuggle in an idea of moral improvement. Moral progress. Which doesn't exist in atheism...
              But existence exists. Does that not mean anything? Is that not of universal value, as in objective value? Like we all want to exist rather than not exist...or at least The Human Race does. If I may use a metaphor, the Human Race is like an organism that wants to exist and exists to reproduce itself. The process is not perfect from our conceptions of perfection, but it works to further the continuum of the Human Race. To live life, the instinct and drive to live rather than commit suicide, is Universal. My question to Tassman is why does there seem to be a disconnect between this universal truth, that all men would rather exist than not exist, and more, all men would rather live in comfort than in discomfort...why then do men commit violence? It would seem that this universal truth that men hold would grow love...not just empathy, but love. Do you observe this taking place?

              It's as if the total organism of man wants to exist. It's beyond the mind even because even babies in utero display signs of wanting to exist. Life itself wants to exist. That is an absolute as far as I can tell.

              My observation for Seer is that maybe this ideal of "morality progressing", is not really the point. Rather, "The Human Race" continuing is the ultimate purpose of the organism that is the Human Race.

              This Organism I wonder...is it God, or part of God?

              Now that I think about it, Wars and violence is not really an argument against it neither. All that is a "shedding of the skin", so that the Organism can stay healthy and continue. And here we are. What are we at now? 7 Billion?

              It may help to think cosmically about it too. Because even if there is no God...as in a monotheistic God, there is a transcendent something we are all partaking of.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                Because ‘Utopia’ is defined as a perfect society in which ALL people work in total harmony and are happy. But this is unrealistic in practice in that many people are poorly socialized or genetically or emotionally flawed. So, whilst we can aspire to greater unity and equal rights for all, there will always be the need for law enforcement and a justice system.
                This aspiration for greater unity. Where is that idea stored? In what part of man is that notion stored in? It's not the mind, or the brain or the head. It's something beyond. There is a transcendence that atheism is leaving out in my opinion.

                Because that Aspiration for Greater Unity springs from the recognition that to live is better than not to live.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                  This aspiration for greater unity. Where is that idea stored? In what part of man is that notion stored in? It's not the mind, or the brain or the head. It's something beyond. There is a transcendence that atheism is leaving out in my opinion.

                  Because that Aspiration for Greater Unity springs from the recognition that to live is better than not to live.
                  Yes, the survival instinct is common to ALL life forms. And among social species such as us and our primate cousins, living in cooperative communities is a product of evolution. It lends itself to our survival as a communal species. Homo sapiens, being cleverer than chimpanzees, have been able to develop ever more complex forms of communal living.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                    Since I believe that all men are God's image bearers and have a transcendent worth that is not dependent (as I said in the past) on varying social constructs, I can logically conclude that racism is evil. We are all, in one sense, God's offspring. But on what basis does the atheist condemn racism? Isn't racism merely tribalism and tribalism a natural outcome of the evolutionary process? In other words - biologically normal?
                    Is racism = tribalism?
                    Not necessarily....
                    Grouping people is not necessarily "evil". What could make groupings of human "evil" is injustice--specifically oppression/exploitation of one group by another group.

                    definition---

                    noun
                    noun: racism
                    1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
                      "a program to combat racism"
                      Similar:
                      racial discrimination
                      racialism
                      racial prejudice/bigotry
                      xenophobia
                      chauvinism
                      bigotry
                      bias
                      intolerance
                      anti-Semitism
                      apartheid
                    the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
                    "theories of racism"



                    Tribalism (grouping of human) is not necessarily "evil" when there is movement in the tribal make-up---families coming in or leaving a tribe, tribes forming temporary or permanent coalitions....etc....Such movement is a symptom of the recognition of the humanity of others. Tribalism becomes toxic when such recognition breaks down and enmity sets in....then the "other" becomes less "human".....
                    ....therefore, loyalty to ones group is not necessarily bad---it only becomes so in excess.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by siam View Post

                      Is racism = tribalism?
                      Not necessarily....
                      Grouping people is not necessarily "evil". What could make groupings of human "evil" is injustice--specifically oppression/exploitation of one group by another group.
                      I did not say there were necessarily the same, I linked two studies a while back that link tribalism to racism. That the natural inclination to form tribal groups is the basis for racial distinctions or superiority.

                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post

                        I did not say there were necessarily the same, I linked two studies a while back that link tribalism to racism. That the natural inclination to form tribal groups is the basis for racial distinctions or superiority.
                        I partially disagree---
                        1) artificial constructs (such as race) are not "instincts"---they are taught.
                        2) in-group loyalty and identity are instincts---but to welcome or fear a stranger is cultural bias---in many societies it is customary to welcome strangers. Even enemies are welcomed if they come in peace. I have heard stories of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, who were invited to a meal when they came in peace.
                        ... too many "studies"/research is done with a Western bias and then unfairly "universalized"/generalized as traits of all humanity.
                        3) Some children/babies may be extroverts and not mind being held by different people, others may be introverts and prefer familiar people---apart from such inherent predisposition, other aspects of social behavior are taught.
                        4) group identity can indeed easily lead to myths of superiority---but such constructs are learned/taught and can therefore be unlearned also. Therefore, it is better to have a paradigm (world-view) that incorporates a philosophy of equality of humanity in some form/myth/reasoning in order to balance the inclination towards excessive group-identity attachment. Another way is to accept that human beings do not have a mono-identity "nature" but have multi-identity affiliations.....(belong to a variety of different groups/have multiple roles/identities)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          Good for you.
                          It would be if it stopped him from being a racist.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            It would be if it stopped him from being a racist.
                            How am I racist? Have I ever said that one race is superior to another race? Or are you lying again?
                            Last edited by seer; 03-29-2021, 07:17 AM.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                              It would be if it stopped him from being a racist.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                ... Or are you lying again?
                                Post reported.

                                If you want answers, don't accuse me of lying.

                                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                                Comment

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