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Interpretation the Trinity is polytheistic

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  • Originally posted by Esther View Post
    Yes Jim. They are 3 distinct and separate members. Jesus was on earth praying to his father in heaven for example.
    Ah, so are you a polytheistic christian?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
      How do you say they are separated?
      You are finding an unjustified pair of opposites. If by unified you mean the oneness of God ... you just use oneness. I'm not sure where you get the supposed idea of indivisibility. This concept is not what is addressed in the comprehension of God. So maybe you can clarify what you are asking.
      Jesus Christ is seated on the right hand of God the Father and distinctly seperate.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Jesus Christ is seated on the right hand of God the Father and distinctly seperate.
        Amen!!

        What is the metaphysical essence of this situation? I take is that your question bumps up against the edges of your metaphysical imagination of the realm of the Godhead.
        Last edited by mikewhitney; 06-16-2020, 06:38 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          So if jesus is the only begotten son of god, what is the 3rd person of the trinity, the only begotten daughter maybe, or what?
          You ask such deep and informed questions.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
            You ask such deep and informed questions.
            Bet you can't answer them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Bet you can't answer them.
              There is the great question -- How many angels can dance on the head of a pen?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                There is the great question -- How many angels can dance on the head of a pen?
                That's not an answer mike, it's a question.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                  There is the great question -- How many angels can dance on the head of a pen?
                  Infinite if they stand on each others shoulders and dance.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    So if jesus is the only begotten son of god, what is the 3rd person of the trinity, the only begotten daughter maybe, or what?
                    ....only begotten dove? at least according to G of John?

                    "Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      Infinite if they stand on each others shoulders and dance.
                      No. Not at all. there are not an infinite number of angels. You would have to take a census before you can start to answer this question.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Esther View Post
                        Yes Jim. They are 3 distinct and separate members. Jesus was on earth praying to his father in heaven for example.
                        Ah the divine mystery of it all. Given the Christian doctrine of the Trinity holds that God is one God but three co-eternal con-substantial persons, when “Jesus was on earth praying to his father in heaven” he was praying to himself.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by siam View Post
                          Why are these people trying so desperately to smash a polytheistic concept onto a monothesitic framework? What makes it necessary?
                          Because Christianity has spent the better part of two thousand years trying to reconcile an ineffable and invisible deity, as found in Second Temple and first century Judaism, with the Hellenised concepts of anthropomorphic deities. And it has never adequately resolved that issue.

                          Christiantiy started out as a Messianic sect of pious observant Palestinian Jews. Paul was from the Hellenised world, and he disappears from history while still formulating his theology. Furthermore, if you read his authentic letters you will find that that many of his ideas have echoes in contemporary religions within the Hellenistic world. His ideas were picked up by other individuals all steeped in Hellenistic culture who added their own “colour and texture”.

                          The diffusion of these ideas around the eastern empire saw them being changed,re-interpreted, and adapted.

                          Contrary to the views of some present day Christians the entire religion in those first two and a half centuries was entirely fluid. Of course there were some individuals who became well-known figures within their respective communities and indeed beyond, and whose epistles, encyclicals, and even sermons were noted, passed around and/or commented upon but there was no orthodox belief as to what the Son [Jesus] actually was; nor of his precise nature, nor of his relationship to God the Father.

                          Once Constantine had given the religion toleration another feature became evident. The infighting and factionalism among the upper echelons of the Christian prelates now had the addition of power politics. Now there was the chance to gain Imperial favour and with it secular power, along with those other Imperial benefits such as money for churches, grants of land, tax exemptions, and claims for expenses.

                          It should be noted that the political and theological machinations that occurred within the Christian church from the fourth century and the internecine factionalism among ecclesiastical prelates vying for power, patronage, and ascendancy within both the Church and with the secular authorities, is worthy of any half-decent soap opera.

                          Suffice to write that the decision of 325 really changed nothing. Arianism was in the ascendancy in the East for several decades afterwards.

                          Ultimately, the only way to achieve any orthodoxy was by Imperial edict and that is exactly what happened in 381 CE. That effectively stated “You will believe this...or else”.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by siam View Post
                            ....only begotten dove? at least according to G of John?

                            "Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him."
                            The dove is a symbol of the Holy Spirit.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              Because Christianity has spent the better part of two thousand years trying to reconcile an ineffable and invisible deity, as found in Second Temple and first century Judaism, with the Hellenised concepts of anthropomorphic deities. And it has never adequately resolved that issue.

                              Christiantiy started out as a Messianic sect of pious observant Palestinian Jews. Paul was from the Hellenised world, and he disappears from history while still formulating his theology. Furthermore, if you read his authentic letters you will find that that many of his ideas have echoes in contemporary religions within the Hellenistic world. His ideas were picked up by other individuals all steeped in Hellenistic culture who added their own “colour and texture”.

                              The diffusion of these ideas around the eastern empire saw them being changed,re-interpreted, and adapted.

                              Contrary to the views of some present day Christians the entire religion in those first two and a half centuries was entirely fluid. Of course there were some individuals who became well-known figures within their respective communities and indeed beyond, and whose epistles, encyclicals, and even sermons were noted, passed around and/or commented upon but there was no orthodox belief as to what the Son [Jesus] actually was; nor of his precise nature, nor of his relationship to God the Father.

                              Once Constantine had given the religion toleration another feature became evident. The infighting and factionalism among the upper echelons of the Christian prelates now had the addition of power politics. Now there was the chance to gain Imperial favour and with it secular power, along with those other Imperial benefits such as money for churches, grants of land, tax exemptions, and claims for expenses.

                              It should be noted that the political and theological machinations that occurred within the Christian church from the fourth century and the internecine factionalism among ecclesiastical prelates vying for power, patronage, and ascendancy within both the Church and with the secular authorities, is worthy of any half-decent soap opera.

                              Suffice to write that the decision of 325 really changed nothing. Arianism was in the ascendancy in the East for several decades afterwards.

                              Ultimately, the only way to achieve any orthodoxy was by Imperial edict and that is exactly what happened in 381 CE. That effectively stated “You will believe this...or else”.
                              You don't know what you are talking about. No one should ever listen to you.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                                There is the great question -- How many angels can dance on the head of a pen?
                                Oh, didn't you know? Two thirds of all the angels. One third are fallen, Revelation 12:4.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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