Originally posted by Esther
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Interpretation the Trinity is polytheistic
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostHow do you say they are separated?
You are finding an unjustified pair of opposites. If by unified you mean the oneness of God ... you just use oneness. I'm not sure where you get the supposed idea of indivisibility. This concept is not what is addressed in the comprehension of God. So maybe you can clarify what you are asking.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostJesus Christ is seated on the right hand of God the Father and distinctly seperate.
What is the metaphysical essence of this situation? I take is that your question bumps up against the edges of your metaphysical imagination of the realm of the Godhead.Last edited by mikewhitney; 06-16-2020, 06:38 PM.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostThere is the great question -- How many angels can dance on the head of a pen?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSo if jesus is the only begotten son of god, what is the 3rd person of the trinity, the only begotten daughter maybe, or what?
"Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him."
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Originally posted by Esther View PostYes Jim. They are 3 distinct and separate members. Jesus was on earth praying to his father in heaven for example.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by siam View PostWhy are these people trying so desperately to smash a polytheistic concept onto a monothesitic framework? What makes it necessary?
Christiantiy started out as a Messianic sect of pious observant Palestinian Jews. Paul was from the Hellenised world, and he disappears from history while still formulating his theology. Furthermore, if you read his authentic letters you will find that that many of his ideas have echoes in contemporary religions within the Hellenistic world. His ideas were picked up by other individuals all steeped in Hellenistic culture who added their own “colour and texture”.
The diffusion of these ideas around the eastern empire saw them being changed,re-interpreted, and adapted.
Contrary to the views of some present day Christians the entire religion in those first two and a half centuries was entirely fluid. Of course there were some individuals who became well-known figures within their respective communities and indeed beyond, and whose epistles, encyclicals, and even sermons were noted, passed around and/or commented upon but there was no orthodox belief as to what the Son [Jesus] actually was; nor of his precise nature, nor of his relationship to God the Father.
Once Constantine had given the religion toleration another feature became evident. The infighting and factionalism among the upper echelons of the Christian prelates now had the addition of power politics. Now there was the chance to gain Imperial favour and with it secular power, along with those other Imperial benefits such as money for churches, grants of land, tax exemptions, and claims for expenses.
It should be noted that the political and theological machinations that occurred within the Christian church from the fourth century and the internecine factionalism among ecclesiastical prelates vying for power, patronage, and ascendancy within both the Church and with the secular authorities, is worthy of any half-decent soap opera.
Suffice to write that the decision of 325 really changed nothing. Arianism was in the ascendancy in the East for several decades afterwards.
Ultimately, the only way to achieve any orthodoxy was by Imperial edict and that is exactly what happened in 381 CE. That effectively stated “You will believe this...or else”."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostBecause Christianity has spent the better part of two thousand years trying to reconcile an ineffable and invisible deity, as found in Second Temple and first century Judaism, with the Hellenised concepts of anthropomorphic deities. And it has never adequately resolved that issue.
Christiantiy started out as a Messianic sect of pious observant Palestinian Jews. Paul was from the Hellenised world, and he disappears from history while still formulating his theology. Furthermore, if you read his authentic letters you will find that that many of his ideas have echoes in contemporary religions within the Hellenistic world. His ideas were picked up by other individuals all steeped in Hellenistic culture who added their own “colour and texture”.
The diffusion of these ideas around the eastern empire saw them being changed,re-interpreted, and adapted.
Contrary to the views of some present day Christians the entire religion in those first two and a half centuries was entirely fluid. Of course there were some individuals who became well-known figures within their respective communities and indeed beyond, and whose epistles, encyclicals, and even sermons were noted, passed around and/or commented upon but there was no orthodox belief as to what the Son [Jesus] actually was; nor of his precise nature, nor of his relationship to God the Father.
Once Constantine had given the religion toleration another feature became evident. The infighting and factionalism among the upper echelons of the Christian prelates now had the addition of power politics. Now there was the chance to gain Imperial favour and with it secular power, along with those other Imperial benefits such as money for churches, grants of land, tax exemptions, and claims for expenses.
It should be noted that the political and theological machinations that occurred within the Christian church from the fourth century and the internecine factionalism among ecclesiastical prelates vying for power, patronage, and ascendancy within both the Church and with the secular authorities, is worthy of any half-decent soap opera.
Suffice to write that the decision of 325 really changed nothing. Arianism was in the ascendancy in the East for several decades afterwards.
Ultimately, the only way to achieve any orthodoxy was by Imperial edict and that is exactly what happened in 381 CE. That effectively stated “You will believe this...or else”.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostThere is the great question -- How many angels can dance on the head of a pen?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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