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Interpretation the Trinity is polytheistic

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Please be more exact. There is only one true God that is the Father according to Jesus in John 17:1-3.
    Yes. And the true God did all creation solely through His Son being God on His behalf, Genesis 1:1, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2-3, Epheisans 3:9, ". . . in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . ." You must hear this truth.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Yes. And the true God did all creation solely through His Son being God on His behalf, Genesis 1:1, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2-3, Epheisans 3:9, ". . . in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . ." You must hear this truth.
      Which, logically speaking, can only mean that the father/god is distinct from the son/god, not that they are one and the same god. And Genesis 1:1 doesn't say anything about Jesus, or the son of god.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Yes. And the true God did all creation solely through His Son being God on His behalf, Genesis 1:1, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2-3, Epheisans 3:9, ". . . in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . ." You must hear this truth.
        Jesus carrying out miracles donot make Jesus God because "Jesus of Nazereth, a MAN approved by SIGNS AND WONDERS God did through him" in Acts 2:22. In addition, while God knows everything in 1John 3:20, Jesus proved that "no one knows that day abd that hour not even the angels in heaven nor the Son BUT ONLY THE FATHER"

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Which, logically speaking, can only mean that the father/god is distinct from the son/god, not that they are one and the same god. And Genesis 1:1 doesn't say anything about Jesus, or the son of god.
          see John 1:1-3, 9-10, and 14.

          Two things.
          There is only one uncaused self Existent being.
          Omnipresent and infinite. Immutable.

          A Cause is finite and temporal. Mutable. Or it would not cause anything.

          In order for such a Cause to be it must also be of that uncaused self Existent being. Meaning it would have to be two things. An uncaused Cause. Uncaused and a Cause.

          And a third thing would be how the second thing is also the same as the first.
          One uncaused Essence.
          . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            see John 1:1-3, 9-10, and 14.

            Two things.
            There is only one uncaused self Existent being.
            Omnipresent and infinite. Immutable.
            Uncaused, Omnipresent, and infinite, yes, but not necessarily a being, sir. That the eternal and infinite is a being is your assumption.

            A Cause is finite and temporal. Mutable. Or it would not cause anything.
            In order for such a Cause to be it must also be of that uncaused self Existent being. Meaning it would have to be two things. An uncaused Cause. Uncaused and a Cause.
            When you say the caused thing must be "of the uncaused" I would agree. Being of the uncaused means that both the caused and the uncaused are of one and the same substance.

            And a third thing would be how the second thing is also the same as the first.
            One uncaused Essence.
            The caused thing is the same as its cause in the sense that they are both of one and the same substance.
            Last edited by JimL; 01-13-2020, 04:50 PM.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
              Jesus carrying out miracles donot make Jesus God because "Jesus of Nazereth, a MAN approved by SIGNS AND WONDERS God did through him" in Acts 2:22. In addition, while God knows everything in 1John 3:20, Jesus proved that "no one knows that day abd that hour not even the angels in heaven nor the Son BUT ONLY THE FATHER"
              You fail to hear John 1:1-3.
              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Uncaused, Omnipresent, and infinite, yes, but not necessarily a being, sir. That the eternal and infinite is a being is your assumption.


                When you say the caused thing must be "of the uncaused" I would agree. Being of the uncaused means that both the caused and the uncaused are of one and the same substance.


                The caused thing is the same as its cause in the sense that they are both of one and the same substance.
                LOL. We are referring to God. In order to claim He is not God one has to deny that God is God. And the reason I cannot be an atheist is as a Christian I actually know God. Not just me. But every genuine Christian on this board.
                . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  LOL. We are referring to God. In order to claim He is not God one has to deny that God is God. And the reason I cannot be an atheist is as a Christian I actually know God. Not just me. But every genuine Christian on this board.
                  Well, if you are simply going to assume a being i.e. a god, without a logical argument to back the assumption up, then there is no point in debating the issue.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    You fail to hear John 1:1-3.
                    And why doesn't it simply say that in the beginning there was Jesus, and Jesus was with god, and Jesus was god, and all things were made by god? You just can't make sense out of the trinity idea no matter how you slice it, my friend.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Well, if you are simply going to assume a being i.e. a god, without a logical argument to back the assumption up, then there is no point in debating the issue.
                      Being means to exist. But God has a definition. Uncaused being self Existent. Add to this actually knowing this God.
                      Add to that, God's ancient Hebrew Name can be translated as "self Existent."

                      Now my point is genuine Christians actually know God. That being the case, you can know God too.

                      But bear in mind, one can not come to believe what one has not heard. And for that matter beelieve something one dos not understand.

                      Like I said, you can know God too.

                      In the words of Jesus, "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." -- John 7:17. Get it, know a teaching that it came from God. But the rub is, you have to hear and understand what that teaching is first.
                      Last edited by 37818; 01-14-2020, 09:23 AM.
                      . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        And why doesn't it simply say that in the beginning there was Jesus, and Jesus was with god, and Jesus was god, and all things were made by god? You just can't make sense out of the trinity idea no matter how you slice it, my friend.
                        John 1:1-3 speaks of the Word. John 1:14 identifies this Word becoming flesh, that is, man.
                        The Apostle Paul wrote the Colossian Christians, ". . . For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. . . ." -- Colossians 1:16-17.
                        Back to what John wrote, John 1:10, " He was in the world, and the world was made by him, . . ."
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          John 1:1-3 speaks of the Word. John 1:14 identifies this Word becoming flesh, that is, man.
                          The Apostle Paul wrote the Colossian Christians, ". . . For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. . . ." -- Colossians 1:16-17.
                          Back to what John wrote, John 1:10, " He was in the world, and the world was made by him, . . ."
                          I know that John speaks the "word". But why did he associate Jesus with being gods "word" rather than the son or second "person" of the trinity. Could it be the fact that Genesis records god as speaking the universe into existence? There is nothing there in Genesis about the son of god or the illogical idea of a trinity of persons.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            I know that John speaks the "word". But why did he associate Jesus with being gods "word" rather than the son or second "person" of the trinity. Could it be the fact that Genesis records god as speaking the universe into existence? There is nothing there in Genesis about the son of god or the illogical idea of a trinity of persons.
                            What I understand is as to what makes the Son distinct from the Father is the Son is the actor on behalf of the Father. see John 5:18-19.
                            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              What I understand is as to what makes the Son distinct from the Father is the Son is the actor on behalf of the Father. see John 5:18-19.
                              Neither the Son not the Holy Spirit is equal to the Father because "no one knows that day and that hour not even the angels in heaven nor the Son BUT ONLY THE FATHER" according to Jesus in Matthew 24:36.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                                Neither the Son not the Holy Spirit is equal to the Father because "no one knows that day and that hour not even the angels in heaven nor the Son BUT ONLY THE FATHER" according to Jesus in Matthew 24:36.
                                Again, you do not know what you are talking about. Yes, I understand you think you do.

                                Jesus explains His deliberate limitation and why, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." Acts 1:7.

                                They are the very same God, not the same persons. Until you know God, even if you grasp three distinct Persons being the same God, . . .
                                . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                                Comment

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