Originally posted by seer
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Is The Concept Of Human Dignity...
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Once again you dodge the question.
Moral ideals are non material abstract concepts.Last edited by seer; 02-24-2021, 07:12 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostTheology by its very definition, is a subjective method which is premised on the interpretation of words found in texts deemed to be sacred.
Originally posted by Diogenes View PostAll religions and their theologies are interpretive frameworks.
P1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
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Originally posted by seer View Post
No, I just can't believe you are really this dense:
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
We finally agree on something
You wrote: "All religions and their theologies are interpretive frameworks." I questioned that statement and you have yet to explain and/or defend it.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostNot quite.
You wrote: "All religions and their theologies are interpretive frameworks." I questioned that statement and you have yet to explain and/or defend it.
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostI would contend that they are attempts to explain human existence, origins, and purpose within the physical world,
I'm glad we can come to an agreement on something.P1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
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Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
So we agree that theology is a subjective interpretation of religious works
I wrote that "Theology by its very definition is a subjective method which is premised on the interpretation of words found in texts deemed to be sacred. [my emphasis].
That is by no means the same as your comment that "theology is a subjective interpretation of religious works". It should be noted that "religious works" may [and often does] include texts which are not deemed to be sacred.
Originally posted by Diogenes View Postand religions are interpretive frameworks to explain human existence et al.
With regard to religions and theologies I wrote that "I would contend they are attempts to explain human existence, origins, and purpose within the physical world, in other words the basic triad of birth, copulation, and death." [my emphasis]
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
I don't believe I am mistaken.
Originally posted by Diogenes View PostI think you're just trying to find disagreement where there is none.
Originally posted by Diogenes View PostThat and just fastidious in general
I remind you again that "religious works" may include texts that are not deemed to be sacred. Nor despite your attempt to suggest that we are in accord have I ever written that I consider religions and theologies to be interpretive frameworks. That statement was made by you when you wrote “All religions and their theologies are interpretive frameworks." I am still waiting for you to defend/explain that comment. However, I am beginning to suspect that, regardless of requests, you will continue to avoid doing so.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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the Spirit is the non material aspect to us humans. I've heard that there is no evidence that consciousness even originates in the brain. That's going to be relevant downstream. For now, we are just talking about this non-material aspect of the human, the part that (i hope i'm stating this correctly), that can think, and abstract and ponder actions that have moral sentiments attached to them, and that can add and subtract and remember names and faces, and can reflect on the very notion and idea of "perfection" for instance, and this thing, this non-material aspect can can ponder memes for instance, and have a discussion about memes and infinity and zero and history. This part of the human...the spirit, from whence does it come?
Is it some emergent property from all the infinite and complex computations of the quantum universe we live in? I could go with that I suppose. Kinda neat.
I think the argument that Seer is making here is a good one, and I especially like when Stoic chimes in with fresh perspective.
Thus far, it seems to me that there is a reluctance to confess that yes, the logical implications that there being no God to be accountable to for our actions, is a free for all orgy-istic cult of doom.
I mean it really really should be, you know, just go and do what pleases you with no regard to anyone other than your self. Steal kill rob pillage, whatever it takes to have as much pleasure and experience in your life because after your dead your memories will infinitely vanish. Now that....is the logical implication of what SHOULD be the behaviour of anyone who is atheist, that is, if their actions and feelings were guided solely by continually analyzing logical axions and making sure that their actions are in alignment with these deductions. . Stoic however makes a good argument that humans simply are not guided so much by logic as they are emotion.
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From an atheistic perspective, I would have no rationale for anything of value. Any value that I project is equally meaningless. It comes from me, originates in me, and after i'm gone I vanish forever. These values that I created also vanish. Sure, they are passed down to others. But is that enough to have some rationale for value?
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If consciousness is an emergent property of a self existent Universe, then it has always existed in one form or another, emerging here in one form and here in another. There would would still be no "God" per se, unless of course you want to call the Universe itself by that name.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
You used the phrase "abstract moral terms". What is an abstract moral? And what are its "terms"?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
I would consider the word “precise” to be more apposite.
I am still waiting for you to defend/explain that comment.
However, I am beginning to suspect that, regardless of requests, you will continue to avoid doing so.
We both agree that theology is a matter of interpretation and we both agree religions are attempts to explain human existence et al. How the latter does not constitute an interpretive framework is beyond me. This is like I'm say "blue" and you're saying "azure".
Last edited by Diogenes; 02-25-2021, 09:51 AM.P1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
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Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
We both agree that theology is a matter of interpretation and we both agree religions are attempts to explain human existence
Originally posted by Diogenes View PostHow the latter does not constitute an interpretive framework is beyond me.
However, perhaps all that is too "fastidious" for you.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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