Is The Concept Of Human Dignity...

[seer]

It should be remembered that the concept of human dignity and what you refer to as "human value" is something that has varied from society to society throughout recorded human history.

So as in my OP you are saying that human dignity is merely a social construction. So when your people removed any dignity from the Jews was perfectly rational?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Does it matter

Yes it does. I want you to explain what you understand by the word "image" that you used in post #102. In what respect[s]/regard[s] are humans in the image of God?

if it adds to man's transcendent and absolute value? But I would say that God is a moral and spiritual Being, and men have these moral and spiritual qualities.

The morality of the primitive god of the OT would not sit easily with the mores of today's enlightened western societies.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So as in my OP you are saying that human dignity is merely a social construction.

Dignity had different meanings for different societies throughout recorded history, You are attempting to retroject a very modern definition back to previous societies in the distant past. That cannot be done.

So when your people removed any dignity from the Jews was perfectly rational?

Irrelevant. Now tell us all what you understand by your use of the word "empire"?

[Cow Poke]

Irrelevant. Now tell us all what you understand by your use of the word "empire"?

Who is "us all"? You appear to be in this battle all by your lonesome.

[Diogenes]

The morality of the primitive god of the OT would not sit easily with the mores of today's [allegedly] enlightened western societies.

I fixed it.

The morality of the OT is relative to that specific time period. It would be an anachronism to impose today. Slavery didn't become economically unjustified until the industrial era, but even before then, it starting being of ill repute with Gregory of Nyssa. A lot of the rest was to separate the Israelites from their neighbors and consecrated to Yahweh. In Jewish thought, the death penalty itself fell into disfavour in a large part due to Maimonides.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Who is "us all"? You appear to be in this battle all by your lonesome.

It is sometimes employed in less formal writing when referring to oneself and [by extension] anyone else who might be reading/interested/concerned with the exchange.

I was not using it as the Royal "we".

[Cow Poke]

It is sometimes employed in less formal writing when referring to oneself and [by extension] anyone else who might be reading/interested/concerned with the exchange.

I was not using it as the Royal "we".

Yes, but in those cases it's backed up by a reasonable expectation that others give a flyin' flip.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The morality of the OT is relative to that specific time period.

Those specific periods of time.

Hence the dangers of attempting to retroject modern ideas about what we now perceive to be human dignity, rights, liberties etc. back to ancient periods in history and to entirely different societies.

[seer]

Dignity had different meanings for different societies throughout recorded history, You are attempting to retroject a very modern definition back to previous societies in the distant past. That cannot be done.

Don't use Dignity then, use value or worth. Is human worth an objective or universal truth or not?

Irrelevant. Now tell us all what you understand by your use of the word "empire"?

It is not irrelevant, it is the whole point! If human worth is merely a social construct then defining the worth of Jews downward is perfectly rational.

Empire: Supreme political power over several countries when exercised by a single authority

[Diogenes]

Those specific periods of time.

Hence the dangers of attempting to retroject modern ideas about what we now perceive to be human dignity, rights, liberties etc. back to ancient periods in history and to entirely different societies.

Humans having dignity due to the Imago Dei goes back to at least Gregory of Nyssa.

There are two further characteristics of the human nous according to Gregory. First, because the human nous is created in the image of God, it possesses a certain “dignity of royalty” (to tes basileias axioma) that is lacking in the rest of creation. Source: IEP

Gregory of Nyssa seems to have been against slavery re the Imago Dei but I'm unable to find his Fourth Homily on Ecclesiastes online atm.

[seer]

Yes it does. I want you to explain what you understand by the word "image" that you used in post #102. In what respect[s]/regard[s] are humans in the image of God?

No it doesn't matter if it endows men with an absolute value.

The morality of the primitive god of the OT would not sit easily with the mores of today's enlightened western societies.

Who decides what is enlightened? And why are they right?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Humans having dignity due to the Imago Dei goes back to at least Gregory of Nyssa.



Gregory of Nyssa seems to have been against slavery re the Imago Dei but I'm unable to find his Fourth Homily on Ecclesiastes online atm.

What has any of that to do with my reply? You seem to jump about from topic to topic while displaying a marked reluctance to respond to requests for you to substantiate remarks.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

No it doesn't matter if it endows men with an absolute value.

Another one who dislikes defining their terms.

Who decides what is enlightened? And why are they right?

You are the one making pronouncements concerning" transcendent and absolute value", not me.

[Cow Poke]

Another one who dislikes defining their terms.

It couldn't possibly be that people are growing weary of your pedantic demands to define terms to your own satisfaction.

[Diogenes]

What has any of that to do with my reply?

The modern ideas about what we now perceive to be human dignity et al" has precursors in ancient thought, most notably with the Imago Dei beginning with Gregory of Nyssa, which I cited. Seer's usage of the Imago Dei as a foundation of human dignity isn't an retrojection of modern ideas into the past, as it's already in the past.

You seem to jump about from topic to topic while displaying a marked reluctance to respond to requests for you to substantiate remarks.

I've actually given citations when asked for substantiation.