Is The Concept Of Human Dignity...

[Starlight]

Where does my solution fail?

Appealing to God to try to ground these is no more interesting philosophically than appealing to my neighbor's views. It's totally arbitrary.

[seer]

Indeed, Seer's own "solutions" fail the very tests he's trying to impose on others.

Are you stupid? What did I say in my OP? Where does my solution fail?

Is The Concept Of Human Dignity merely a social construction, or is there a transcendent link that is not dependent on wavering social norms?

[Starlight]

So it's subjective.

Indeed, Seer's own "solutions" fail the very tests he's trying to impose on others.

[seer]

So it's subjective. Transcendent, by subjective still.

Yet permanent and certain and absolute.

[Diogenes]

God...

So it's subjective. Transcendent, by subjective still.

[seer]

Without appealing to the soul or personhood, under your Christianity, what gives humans dignity and moral worth?

God...

[Diogenes]

Without appealing to the soul or personhood, under your Christianity, what gives humans dignity and moral worth?

[Diogenes]

On that we are in agreement.

A more exact definition to describe "[a]ll religions and theologies" would be to define them as speculative systems for the interpretation of the cosmos, human existence within it, and the means of subsistence. [The latter probably being the earliest manifestation of “religious beliefs”.]

However, perhaps all that is too "fastidious" for you.

I'm glad you finally found the hair in your soup; plot twist, it's your own hair, not the cook's nor the server's.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Good grief woman - I'm sure every one here clearly understood my point - except you! We can grasp abstract moral ideals, or terms, or have abstract moral ideas.

Yet that is not what you initially wrote.

What you have written in this reply is more in keeping with what I suggested not your original comment which was "The point is that we can think in abstract moral terms ".

[seer]

Moral ideas are not tangible and in that respect are abstract. However, that is not what you wrote. You wrote "The point is that we can think in abstract moral terms " What did you mean by abstract moral terms?

Or did you intend to write "We can think about abstract terms such as morality?

Good grief woman - I'm sure every one here clearly understood my point - except you! We can grasp abstract moral ideals, or terms, or have abstract moral ideas. We can think or rationalize morally - which separates us from the animals.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Moral ideals are abstract by definition. That is my point.

Moral ideas are not tangible and in that respect are abstract. However, that is not what you wrote. You wrote "The point is that we can think in abstract moral terms " What did you mean by abstract moral terms?

Or did you intend to write "We can think about abstract terms such as morals?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

We both agree that theology is a matter of interpretation and we both agree religions are attempts to explain human existence

On that we are in agreement.

How the latter does not constitute an interpretive framework is beyond me.

A more exact definition to describe "[a]ll religions and theologies" would be to define them as speculative systems for the interpretation of the cosmos, human existence within it, and the means of subsistence. [The latter probably being the earliest manifestation of “religious beliefs”.]

However, perhaps all that is too "fastidious" for you.

[Diogenes]

I would consider the word “precise” to be more apposite.

If you say so.

I am still waiting for you to defend/explain that comment.

I wouldn't advise holding your breath.

However, I am beginning to suspect that, regardless of requests, you will continue to avoid doing so.

We both agree that theology is a matter of interpretation and we both agree religions are attempts to explain human existence et al. How the latter does not constitute an interpretive framework is beyond me. This is like I'm say "blue" and you're saying "azure".

[seer]

You used the phrase "abstract moral terms". What is an abstract moral? And what are its "terms"?

Moral ideals are abstract by definition. That is my point.

[Machinist]

If consciousness is an emergent property of a self existent Universe, then it has always existed in one form or another, emerging here in one form and here in another. There would would still be no "God" per se, unless of course you want to call the Universe itself by that name.