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  • Originally posted by seer View Post

    So if something can't be proven with the same exactness as mathematical theorem it can't be true or real? Wouldn't that throw out most historical claims?
    As I never wrote any such thing your question concerning history is irrelevant.

    Nor have you complied with my request that you define what you understand by “arbitrary” in your comment “Define proof in a non-abitrary”.


    Address that and I will address the rest of your comments.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      No, he wouldn't. You seem to find this concept really hard to get, and seem to have (deliberately?) misunderstood my words in my previous post. God adds nothing. Having him say something is moral or not moral adds nothing whatsoever to the topic and is no more authoritative than my neighbor saying something is or isn't moral. You're trying to apply God-of-the-gaps to morality, but adding God doesn't achieve anything at all. Your moral system is absolutely as arbitrary and subjective as those you complain about.
      Nonsense Star, if you are right there are no universal moral truths, and even if there were (apart from a governing authority) they too would add nothing. Yet you spin your wheels trying to develop an argument for universal moral truths (which BTW are not really universal) when there is no reason to accept them. The argument is neither novel or compelling and has zero intellectual or moral force behind it. There can logically be no moral progress in the atheist's world merely moral change. If there are true universal moral norms (i.e. the law of God) then there can be moral progress as we move closer to said standard. And there would be an absolute governing authority to insure that we will reach these ethical goals. Now tell me again how your position adds anything to the discussion?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        As I never wrote any such thing your question concerning history is irrelevant.

        Nor have you complied with my request that you define what you understand by “arbitrary” in your comment “Define proof in a non-abitrary”.


        Address that and I will address the rest of your comments.
        No, you said: Concept/entities for which there is no evidence cannot be proven either way.

        I said: Proven how? Define proof in a non-arbitrary.

        You said: These concepts cannot be proven as in a mathematical theorem and in what specific sense are you employing the word "arbitrary"?

        In other words I asked you to define proof or evidence. What constitutes proof or evidence. And so what if they can't be demonstrated in a mathematical sense - does that make them less true?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post

          No, you said: Concept/entities for which there is no evidence cannot be proven either way.

          I said: Proven how? Define proof in a non-arbitrary.


          And I asked you in what specific sense were you employing the word "arbitrary" in that comment.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            [/B]

            And I asked you in what specific sense were you employing the word "arbitrary" in that comment.
            As a matter of personal opinion or choice. In other words using or rejecting criterion that suits your position. So now answer mine... What do you mean by proof or evidence?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post

              As a matter of personal opinion or choice. In other words using or rejecting criterion that suits your position.
              Attempting to prove/disprove the existence of supreme beings/entities is a philosophical cul-d-sac. It is not the same as proving a mathematical theorem or demonstrating a scientific fact.

              You cannot offer me verifiable incontrovertible evidence that your supreme being exists and I cannot offer you irrefutable proof that such entities do not exist. I can only point to the lack of any verifiable, testable, and empirical evidence for such entities. In that regard supreme beings/gods are exactly the same as the elf.

              I cannot prove that elves exist and nor can I prove beyond all reasonable doubt that elves do not exist. However, the lack of evidence for the existence of elves does not presuppose that believing in the reality of an elfin presence is therefore the most logical and sensible approach to take.
              Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 03-02-2021, 11:42 AM.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Attempting to prove/disprove the existence of supreme beings/entities is a philosophical cul-d-sac. It is not the same as proving a mathematical theorem or demonstrating a scientific fact.

                You cannot offer me verifiable incontrovertible evidence that your supreme being exists and I cannot offer you irrefutable proof that such entities do not exist. I can only point to the lack of any verifiable, testable, and empirical evidence for such entities. In that regard supreme beings/gods are exactly the same as the elf.

                I cannot prove that elves exist and nor can I prove beyond all reasonable doubt that elves do not exist. However, the lack of evidence for the existence of elves does not presuppose that believing in the reality of an elfin presence is therefore the most logical and sensible approach to take.
                You still have not defined either proof or evidence. Does something have to be testable to be true?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post

                  You still have not defined either proof or evidence. Does something have to be testable to be true?
                  I have given you a perfectly clear reply regarding my remark that "Concept/entities for which there is no evidence cannot be proven either way."

                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    I have given you a perfectly clear reply regarding my remark that "Concept/entities for which there is no evidence cannot be proven either way."
                    So you are dodging again. Got it...
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post

                      So you are dodging again. Got it...
                      I answered your question.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • It Thought this fit the discussion:

                        “It is a serious thing to live in a society where the dullest most uninteresting person you can talk to may one day be a creature which,if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship, or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare. All day long we are, in some degree helping each other to one or the other of these destinations. It is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities, it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them, that we should conduct all of our dealings with one another, all friendships, all loves, all play, all politics. There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures, arts, civilizations - these are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit - immortal horrors or everlasting splendors.” CS Lewis
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment

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