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Discrepancy between Leviticus 23:6 and Matthew 26:17?

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  • #46
    FWIW, here is what Keener has to say about Quirinius and the census in his IVP Bible Background Commentary:


    Luke 2:2. Scholars often dispute whether Quirinius was governor of Syria at this time. Quirinius was certainly governor of Syria during the much-remembered later census of A.D. 6, when Sepphoris and some Galilean patriots revolted against the tax census of that year. This passage seems to refer to an earlier census while Herod the Great was still king (before 4 B.C.); thus perhaps Luke’s “first census under Quirinius.”

    Some commentators have suggested that Luke blended the two events (the well-known with the obscure) or that Quirinius was governor of Syria at the earlier time Luke describes as well as in A.D. 6, for which there is some (though currently incomplete) evidence. Historians dated events by naming current officials, so Quirinius may have been in office at the time without being associated with this census. The governor of Syria is mentioned because the Roman province of Syria included Palestine under its jurisdiction at this time.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

    Justice for Matthew Perna!

    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
      FWIW, here is what Keener has to say about Quirinius and the census in his IVP Bible Background Commentary:


      Luke 2:2. Scholars often dispute whether Quirinius was governor of Syria at this time. Quirinius was certainly governor of Syria during the much-remembered later census of A.D. 6, when Sepphoris and some Galilean patriots revolted against the tax census of that year. This passage seems to refer to an earlier census while Herod the Great was still king (before 4 B.C.); thus perhaps Luke’s “first census under Quirinius.”

      Some commentators have suggested that Luke blended the two events (the well-known with the obscure) or that Quirinius was governor of Syria at the earlier time Luke describes as well as in A.D. 6, for which there is some (though currently incomplete) evidence. Historians dated events by naming current officials, so Quirinius may have been in office at the time without being associated with this census. The governor of Syria is mentioned because the Roman province of Syria included Palestine under its jurisdiction at this time.
      I will stay with Ronald Syme and Emil Schürer.[to name but two] on the issue.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post


        (Just as a BTW - a written account is a record: it may be an accurate record or inaccurate, but it is a record either way.)
        So perhaps Harry Potter is real after all!
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          So perhaps Harry Potter is real after all!
          You seem to think that snide comments and ridicule make a compelling argument for your case.
          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
          Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

          "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            You seem to think that snide comments and ridicule make a compelling argument for your case.
            You wrote what you wrote.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              You wrote what you wrote.
              What I have written about the records of the day of Christ's crucifixion has been laid out in an orderly and verifiable fashion: it is only a matter of comparing my claims with the authors' own accounts.
              You are left with no more than snide comments and ridicule to serve as rebuttal. The parroted second hand and flawed assessments that you proffer are worth even less.
              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
              Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

              "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                What I have written about the records of the day of Christ's crucifixion has been laid out in an orderly and verifiable fashion: it is only a matter of comparing my claims with the authors' own accounts.
                You are left with no more than snide comments and ridicule to serve as rebuttal. The parroted second hand and flawed assessments that you proffer are worth even less.
                With regard to the four gospel accounts of the Passion, you are fantasizing about events for which we have no extraneous corroborative contemporary evidence. We do not know the year in which the man we call Jesus of Nazareth was executed. We can only surmise that it took place in one of the years of Pilate's ten year position as governor. The actual year is unknown.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  With regard to the four gospel accounts of the Passion, you are fantasizing about events for which we have no extraneous corroborative contemporary evidence.
                  That is your red herring. Lack of independent corroborative evidence has no bearing on whether the accounts are in accord with each other.

                  We do not know the year in which the man we call Jesus of Nazareth was executed. We can only surmise that it took place in one of the years of Pilate's ten year position as governor. The actual year is unknown.
                  Yet more red herrings on your part. There is enough information in the gospel records to show that the same meal is referred to by John and the Synoptics' authors. Given that none of the gospels identifies the year, they are not in conflict with regard to that detail.

                  Then again -- the year that Caiaphas was high priest might provide a clue.
                  Last edited by tabibito; 07-27-2022, 07:54 PM.
                  1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                  Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                  "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    That is your red herring.
                    It is not a "red herring" it is a historical fact.

                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    Lack of independent corroborative evidence has no bearing on whether the accounts are in accord with each other.
                    Of course it does.

                    These are four separate accounts written for different communities. The four writers did not sit down in committee prior to writing their accounts.

                    And without any "independent corroborative evidence" we cannot establish those narratives within a known historical context.

                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    Yet more red herrings on your part. There is enough information in the gospel records to show that the same meal is referred to by John and the Synoptics' authors. Given that none of the gospels identifies the year, they are not in conflict with regard to that detail.
                    There is no independent corroborative evidence to establish that those accounts are correct. Do you not understand this?

                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    Then again -- the year that Caiaphas was high priest might provide a clue.
                    Hardly. He was High Priest throughout Pilate's governorship and had been appointed by Gratus, Pilate's predecessor .

                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      It is not a "red herring" it is a historical fact.

                      Of course it does.

                      These are four separate accounts written for different communities. The four writers did not sit down in committee prior to writing their accounts.

                      And without any "independent corroborative evidence" we cannot establish those narratives within a known historical context.

                      There is no independent corroborative evidence to establish that those accounts are correct. Do you not understand this?

                      Hardly. He was High Priest throughout Pilate's governorship and had been appointed by Gratus, Pilate's predecessor .
                      Each of the authors provides consistent testimony regarding the basic details. The separate matter of whether the testimonies are historically accurate has no bearing on whether the authors' testimonies are consistent.
                      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                      Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                      "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                        Each of the authors provides consistent testimony regarding the basic details.
                        With regards the timing of this meal, they are not. However, I am not going through all that again.

                        Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                        The separate matter of whether the testimonies are historically accurate has no bearing on whether the authors' testimonies are consistent.
                        They are not as they have come down to us and we have no original MSS for any of these gospels..

                        Without any corroborative contemporary extraneous evidence we have no way of cross-referencing the date of execution and the events leading up to it. It really is that simple.

                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                          With regards the timing of this meal, they are not. However, I am not going through all that again.

                          They are not as they have come down to us and we have no original MSS for any of these gospels..

                          Without any corroborative contemporary extraneous evidence we have no way of cross-referencing the date of execution and the events leading up to it. It really is that simple.
                          In short, you can't find anything to demonstrate that the synoptic gospels' authors differ from John regarding the basic information about the day of crucifixion.
                          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                          Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                          "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            In short, you can't find anything to demonstrate that the synoptic gospels' authors differ from John regarding the basic information about the day of crucifixion.
                            The evidence is in the texts concerning the day on which this meal took place. Nor were these later writers au fait with [or indeed overly interested in] Jewish festivals. This is apologetics not history.

                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              The evidence is in the texts concerning the day on which this meal took place. Nor were these later writers au fait with [or indeed overly interested in] Jewish festivals. This is apologetics not history.
                              Your initial contention was that the gospels are in conflict: a matter of literature, not history. Having failed in that endeavour, you now are trying to pretend that history is relevant to your initial contention, and present nothing but bare assertion and empty speculation in support of your claims about the history. Simple fact; you failed to make your case on the one, and are now trying to deflect attention from that failure.
                              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                              Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                              "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                                Your initial contention was that the gospels are in conflict: a matter of literature
                                They are in conflict.

                                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                , not history.
                                They are apologetics.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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