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Absurdity of Morality Apart From God

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post

    So do you believe that true contradictions are possible?
    Not if we're sticking to classical logic. But if we were to adopt dialetheism, then I wouldn't rule it out.

    Just like a king can't be captured in chess. IF you're playing by the standard rules.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post

      Well we agree on that!
      Indeed. Obviously, we must agree on the rules of logic just as we must agree on the rules of language - they are necessary for meaningful communication. But they are not “absolute” in and of themselves.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

        Not if we're sticking to classical logic. But if we were to adopt dialetheism, then I wouldn't rule it out.

        Just like a king can't be captured in chess. IF you're playing by the standard rules.
        Stoic, we are trying to find out what the case actually is, not what subjective rules we may or may not employ. And since you won't rule it out, then, by your lights, true contradictions could exist. Which would apply to any statement you make.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

          Indeed. Obviously, we must agree on the rules of logic just as we must agree on the rules of language - they are necessary for meaningful communication. But they are not “absolute” in and of themselves.
          How is the LONC not absolute no matter which language you use?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post

            Stoic, we are trying to find out what the case actually is, not what subjective rules we may or may not employ. And since you won't rule it out, then, by your lights, true contradictions could exist. Which would apply to any statement you make.
            Sorry, you don't get to castle after your king has moved just because I won't agree that the rules of chess are absolute.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

              Sorry, you don't get to castle after your king has moved just because I won't agree that the rules of chess are absolute.
              Chess is a made up game - we are speaking of how the universe actually works. And if true contradictions do exist, then everything is suspect - including any claim or statement you make.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                Chess is a made up game - we are speaking of how the universe actually works. And if true contradictions do exist, then everything is suspect - including any claim or statement you make.
                Logic isn't about how the universe works. It's about statements that we make, which either comply with (a particular) logic, or don't.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                  Logic isn't about how the universe works. It's about statements that we make, which either comply with (a particular) logic, or don't.
                  No, logical rules are discovered not invented. No matter what form of logic you use, the sun could not both exist and not exist at the same moment. Unless you think otherwise...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    No, logical rules are discovered not invented.
                    The rules of classical logic are derived from the semantics of our language.

                    No matter what form of logic you use, the sun could not both exist and not exist at the same moment. Unless you think otherwise...
                    Would that be something like Schrödinger's cat being alive and not alive at the same time?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post

                      How is the LONC not absolute no matter which language you use?
                      It is “absolute” only because, as with ALL language, we agree upon what it means. Even so, it is not necessarily “absolute” when confronted with ‘quantum mechanics'.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                        Would that be something like Schrödinger's cat being alive and not alive at the same time?
                        No, that actually does not happen. Just saying that the sun could both exist and not exist at the same moment shows the absurdity of the claim.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                          It is “absolute” only because, as with ALL language, we agree upon what it means. Even so, it is not necessarily “absolute” when confronted with ‘quantum mechanics'.
                          The sun can not both exist and not exist at the same time. That is a fact, and absolute, no matter what language you use or whether there is any language at all.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            No, that actually does not happen. Just saying that the sun could both exist and not exist at the same moment shows the absurdity of the claim.
                            If your argument is empirical, I'd point out that experience doesn't lead to justified absolute certainty.

                            If your argument is based on the definitions of the words, I'd point out that that doesn't tell you anything conclusive about the world.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                              If your argument is empirical, I'd point out that experience doesn't lead to justified absolute certainty.

                              If your argument is based on the definitions of the words, I'd point out that that doesn't tell you anything conclusive about the world.
                              It is empirical, rational and philosophical. If you can't see that the claim, that the sun could both exist and not exist at the same moment, is completely absurd I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you....Are you a Solipsist?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post

                                It is empirical, rational and philosophical. If you can't see that the claim, that the sun could both exist and not exist at the same moment, is completely absurd I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you....Are you a Solipsist?
                                No, I'm a fallibilist. I can say that I know that the sun could not both exist and not exist at the same moment, without claiming absolute certainty.

                                Comment

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