The Land of Nod

[Mountain Man]

Why is the Land of Nod interpreted as something figurative, and not a literal pre-Cain civilization. it seems to me that that would be the most likely way to interpret history. It seems though that the reluctance to interpret it this way is because there are theological implications that would conflict with certain schools of thought. What implications, if any, are there, if the Land of Nod was indeed a civilization that pre-dated Cain? If I had no pre-requisite knowledge, and I was offered two different explanations regarding this matter, I would have to go with the pre-existent civilization. It just seems to make the most sense when reading the text. Thank You!

I see no reason why it couldn't be a locality inhabited by descendants of Adam and Eve. There is nothing in scripture to suggest that Cain and Able were necessarily Adam and Eve's first or only children. The whole of Genesis presents a very loose and non-linear narrative, so trying to read it with strict literalism has some pitfalls.

[Machinist]

I see no reason why it couldn't be a locality inhabited by descendants of Adam and Eve. There is nothing in scripture to suggest that Cain and Able were necessarily Adam and Eve's first or only children. The whole of Genesis presents a very loose and non-linear narrative, so trying to read it with strict literalism has some pitfalls.

I agree that there is nothing in scripture suggesting this. All things being equal however, the most reasonable guess for me is that there were other creation events that resulted in this other civilization. To suggest that was Eve's descendants doesn't really jel. Now, I don't know what that means about me, about my intent, or my belief. It's just that if given options, one makes more sense than the other, like it fits within a story more squarely. I don't know. I'm just groping for words here.

[rogue06]

I agree that there is nothing in scripture suggesting this. All things being equal however, the most reasonable guess for me is that there were other creation events that resulted in this other civilization. To suggest that was Eve's descendants doesn't really jel. Now, I don't know what that means about me, about my intent, or my belief. It's just that if given options, one makes more sense than the other, like it fits within a story more squarely. I don't know. I'm just groping for words here.

As for beliefs, if you don't mind my asking, do you believe in God? Do you consider yourself a Christian? And do you hold the tenants of the early Creeds?

If so all else is effectively window dressing which there can be disagreement on in that it isn't salvific.

[Mountain Man]

I agree that there is nothing in scripture suggesting this. All things being equal however, the most reasonable guess for me is that there were other creation events that resulted in this other civilization. To suggest that was Eve's descendants doesn't really jel. Now, I don't know what that means about me, about my intent, or my belief. It's just that if given options, one makes more sense than the other, like it fits within a story more squarely. I don't know. I'm just groping for words here.

I suppose it's possible there were other creation events not documented in scripture, but I think that's quite a stretch and has certain theological implications that don't sit well with the rest of scripture. The most likely explanation for the land of Nod, based on what's actually in scripture, is that those people were simply descendants of Adam and Eve.

[Machinist]

I suppose it's possible there were other creation events not documented in scripture, but I think that's quite a stretch and has certain theological implications that don't sit well with the rest of scripture. The most likely explanation for the land of Nod, based on what's actually in scripture, is that those people were simply descendants of Adam and Eve.

It is inconceivable to me that that is what the author intended. That this civilization was from Adam and Eve. In my mind, that is not even a remote possibility.

[Machinist]

As for beliefs, if you don't mind my asking, do you believe in God? Do you consider yourself a Christian? And do you hold the tenants of the early Creeds?

If so all else is effectively window dressing which there can be disagreement on in that it isn't salvific.

It all depends on the definition of belief I guess. Yes, I do consider my Christian. I do go to a Church where we collectively recite some creed. I forget which one, but it goes through the Virgin Birth, Death, Burial, Resurrection, etc.

[rogue06]

It all depends on the definition of belief I guess. Yes, I do consider my Christian. I do go to a Church where we collectively recite some creed. I forget which one, but it goes through the Virgin Birth, Death, Burial, Resurrection, etc.

Not meaning to pick at nits but do you accept what is said in the creed?

And I should add that by believe I'm not talking about blind faith.

I'm sorry if this seems like I'm interrogating you, I just want to get a better idea where you are coming from

[Mountain Man]

It is inconceivable to me that that is what the author intended. That this civilization was from Adam and Eve. In my mind, that is not even a remote possibility.

Why is it inconceivable? There are indications in scripture that people early in human history had exceptionally long lives, so it is entirely possible that several generations had been born by the time of Cain and Able.

[rogue06]

Why is it inconceivable? There are indications in scripture that people early in human history had exceptionally long lives, so it is entirely possible that several generations had been born by the time of Cain and Able.

I think one possibility is that if this was the case then there wouldn't really have been any reason for God to "mark" Cain. All that would have been necessary is to tell everybody, if you see someone you don't recognize, don't hurt him. This implies that coming across strangers was a pretty common occurrence and even with long life spans the population would only be so big.

[Mountain Man]

I think one possibility is that if this was the case then there wouldn't really have been any reason for God to "mark" Cain. All that would have been necessary is to tell everybody, if you see someone you don't recognize, don't hurt him.

Yes, God could have told everybody, or he could have marked Cain. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[Machinist]

Why is it inconceivable? There are indications in scripture that people early in human history had exceptionally long lives, so it is entirely possible that several generations had been born by the time of Cain and Able.

"Inconceivable" may be too strong a word. I suppose it's conceivable, but what is most likely the author's intention, to my mind at least, is that there was a civilization not of Adam and Eve. And yes, that is an assumption. Either way is an assumption. What makes the most sense to me with respect to a neat and concise story line is that the Land of Nod was of different origins. It's just the way the story reads to me, and I lean more toward that being the case, that is, if I accept the Genesis account as literal history.

[rogue06]

"Inconceivable" may be too strong a word. I suppose it's conceivable, but what is most likely the author's intention, to my mind at least, is that there was a civilization not of Adam and Eve. And yes, that is an assumption. Either way is an assumption. What makes the most sense to me with respect to a neat and concise story line is that the Land of Nod was of different origins. It's just the way the story reads to me, and I lean more toward that being the case, that is, if I accept the Genesis account as literal history.

I think that one thing to consider is that these accounts weren't written to provide a history in the modern sense of what we think of as history. It was more concerned with relaying religious truths set in a historical framework and not always concerned with things like chronological exactitude like modern historians are.

[Faber]

What makes the most sense to me with respect to a neat and concise story line is that the Land of Nod was of different origins. It's just the way the story reads to me, and I lean more toward that being the case, that is, if I accept the Genesis account as literal history.

That is a good clear example of the definition of eisegesis.

If we had digital technology and laptop computers back when the Bible was written, perhaps we would have had a huge amount of detailed Scripture. The historical books of the Old Testament would have been about the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Imagine all the pictures we would have had. But God in His wisdom gave us just enough to carry in our arms and memorize, and read in a year. And enough to find salvation and learn Christian conduct.

Meanwhile, there is a lot that was left unsaid. That leads to a multitude of assumptions and guesses to try to fill in the blanks. Which leads to thousands of denominations, multitude of cults and false doctrines. And fights here on TWeb.

We all need to depend entirely on Scripture alone and on the Holy Spirit as the teacher Jesus promised He would send. And set aside every one of our own preconceived notions or what we would feel more comfortable believing.

[rogue06]

That is a good clear example of the definition of eisegesis.

If we had digital technology and laptop computers back when the Bible was written, perhaps we would have had a huge amount of detailed Scripture. The historical books of the Old Testament would have been about the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Imagine all the pictures we would have had. But God in His wisdom gave us just enough to carry in our arms and memorize, and read in a year. And enough to find salvation and learn Christian conduct.

Meanwhile, there is a lot that was left unsaid. That leads to a multitude of assumptions and guesses to try to fill in the blanks. Which leads to thousands of denominations, multitude of cults and false doctrines. And fights here on TWeb.

We all need to depend entirely on Scripture alone and on the Holy Spirit as the teacher Jesus promised He would send. And set aside every one of our own preconceived notions or what we would feel more comfortable believing.

I agree except that the whole thousands of denominations thing is a myth

[Faber]

I agree except that the whole thousands of denominations thing is a myth

An exaggeration on my part. Somewhere in another recent thread somebody gave a number like that.