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"Jesus is God" was an early belief

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  • "Jesus is God" was an early belief

    For example, Polycarp (A.D. 69-155) who was a disciple of John the apostle wrote:

    Source: Stand to Reason

    Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source


    This page then goes on to cite eight more early church fathers who wrote clearly that Jesus is God.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  • #2
    Even earlier in the Gospel According to John we can see Jesus attesting to this fact.

    In his run in with the Pharisees during the Feast of Tabernacles mentioned in John 8, Jesus warned them,

    Scripture Verse:

    "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins” (John 8:24).

    © Copyright Original Source



    In reaction to this statement they asked him, "Who are you?" (John 8:25).

    So Jesus explained to them exactly who he is:

    Scripture Verse:

    "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58).

    © Copyright Original Source



    Please note that this "I am" (ego eimi) statement is a clear proclamation by Jesus that he is Yahweh given its usage in Isaiah (Isaiah 41:4; 43:10–13, 25; 46:4; 48:12; cf. John 13:19).

    These are the exact same words (ego eimi) ) that, according to John 8:16, caused the Roman soldiers to fall to the ground after they came to arrest Jesus and this explicit identification of Himself with Yahweh is why the Jewish leaders wanted to stone him for blasphemy (see John 5:18; 10:33).

    So it "was an early belief" going straight back to the Bible and Jesus himself.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah, I was going to mention that too. The "Alpha and Omega," "the First and the Last" statements in Revelation are also pretty explicit, both in and of themselves, and in echoing language Isaiah used in regard to YHWH.

      And for Scripture authored earlier in the 1st-C, Rom. 10:9 shows the necessity of acknowledging Jesus as "Lord," while 10:13, by quoting Joel 2:32, shows this is a reference to YHWH.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Nationalist.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
        Yeah, I was going to mention that too. The "Alpha and Omega," "the First and the Last" statements in Revelation are also pretty explicit, both in and of themselves, and in echoing language Isaiah used in regard to YHWH.

        And for Scripture authored earlier in the 1st-C, Rom. 10:9 shows the necessity of acknowledging Jesus as "Lord," while 10:13, by quoting Joel 2:32, shows this is a reference to YHWH.
        And of course there is Titus 2:13 where Paul refers to Jesus as "our great God and Savior."

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          And of course there is Titus 2:13 where Paul refers to Jesus as "our great God and Savior."
          Yeah, but non-conservative scholars tend to date the "Pastoral" Epistles to 2nd-C or later, IIRC.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Nationalist.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

            Yeah, but non-conservative scholars tend to date the "Pastoral" Epistles to 2nd-C or later, IIRC.
            I'm fully aware of the disagreement although I'm not cognizant of anyone seriously arguing for a post 2nd cent. date.

            Anywho, the verse (2:13), as well as the entire book (Epistle to Titus), is indisputably canon.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              I noted elsewhere that Gal 3:19-20 has shown that no mediator is required between Jesus and the Father since God is one. We know earlier that the promise by God was to Abraham and his seed, Jesus.

              With Jesus as part of the Godhead, there is only one party at this point of the promise. A mediator serve a function (or intervene) between persons of the Godhead.

              If we look at an example among people, I could own a business and then be injured on the job. I could hardly sue the business for damages. I would be suing myself. Am I going to get a judge to make my business pay for my injury? No, I just pay my medical bills of myself (either of personal funds or business operation expenses).

              Galatians was probably written in AD 47-48 and thus reflects an understanding of Christ as Deity in the first 20 years.
              Last edited by mikewhitney; 10-31-2020, 01:10 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, and Murray Harris' book "Jesus as God" goes over the Scriptural evidence (which is indeed substantial). The referenced article was more along the lines of showing that belief that Jesus is God was common among early Christians, that this belief was not due to some edict by Constantine.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                  Yes, and Murray Harris' book "Jesus as God" goes over the Scriptural evidence (which is indeed substantial). The referenced article was more along the lines of showing that belief that Jesus is God was common among early Christians, that this belief was not due to some edict by Constantine.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  Just pointing out that not only does it date to early Christianity but to its very inception.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Don' forget Thomas exclaiming "My Lord and my God!" to Jesus when he appeared to him alive.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      For example, Polycarp (A.D. 69-155) who was a disciple of John the apostle wrote:

                      Source: Stand to Reason

                      Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.

                      Source

                      © Copyright Original Source


                      This page then goes on to cite eight more early church fathers who wrote clearly that Jesus is God.

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      I accept that the Fathers had this belief but it is also a fact that all were writing in the 2nd C CE with perhaps one in the very late 1st C and others perhaps into the 3rd C. What is also interesting is that the earliest followers seem to accept Jesus as 'risen and exalted' and made Lord by God. Jesus, at this early stage seems to be viewed differently than in a later, high Christology.

                      What is also a bit intriguing is that Paul refers to Jesus as an 'angel' of the Lord (meaning the Father) and in the OT, the angel of the Lord is also referred to as God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by thormas View Post

                        I accept that the Fathers had this belief but it is also a fact that all were writing in the 2nd C CE with perhaps one in the very late 1st C and others perhaps into the 3rd C.
                        And it's stuff like this that makes it important that this comes straight from the Bible itself

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          And it's stuff like this that makes it important that this comes straight from the Bible itself
                          Good point but there does seem to be differences between the earliest and the later writings in the NT concerning Jesus......and we consider all these writings as the Bible.

                          Also, seems some Fathers were instrumental in the 'selection' of the canon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by thormas View Post

                            Good point but there does seem to be differences between the earliest and the later writings in the NT concerning Jesus......and we consider all these writings as the Bible.

                            Also, seems some Fathers were instrumental in the 'selection' of the canon.
                            NR brought up Romans. The consensus is that it was written in the mid 50s. Do you consider that a later writing?
                            MW brought up Galatians, which most place from the 40s or early 50s. Is that late?

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              NR brought up Romans. The consensus is that it was written in the mid 50s. Do you consider that a later writing?
                              MW brought up Galatians, which most place from the 40s or early 50s. Is that late?
                              I'm fine with the scholarly dating of the epistles from roughly 49-60 CE.

                              Later writings refers to anything after Paul,especially the gospels dated roughly from the early 70s to the mid 90s CE.

                              Comment

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