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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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Saved Atheist

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  • Saved Atheist

    What’s wrong with this?

    Christians and Atheists alike are the same type of creature and live in the same world and experience through their senses the same sorts of things. We are governed by the exact same physics. The difference is focused on one book that gives rise to a special language about things unseen. A Christian is a person tutored in that special language. Because the atheist does not see the same things that the Christian does not see the only difference between them is the language they use to describe the unseen things. All else being equal, the language a person uses does not affect his/her ‘spiritual’ state and therefore someone who uses the language of non-belief is just as ‘saved’, for example, as a Christian.

    Every time a Christian says you can’t be saved unless …… they are simply using their special language to describe the very same unseen things that are just as visible or invisible to the atheist. Therefore, language apart, we are in the same boat and Christians and atheists are both “saved”.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

  • #2
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    What’s wrong with this?

    Christians and Atheists alike are the same type of creature and live in the same world and experience through their senses the same sorts of things. We are governed by the exact same physics. The difference is focused on one book that gives rise to a special language about things unseen. A Christian is a person tutored in that special language. Because the atheist does not see the same things that the Christian does not see the only difference between them is the language they use to describe the unseen things. All else being equal, the language a person uses does not affect his/her ‘spiritual’ state and therefore someone who uses the language of non-belief is just as ‘saved’, for example, as a Christian.

    Every time a Christian says you can’t be saved unless …… they are simply using their special language to describe the very same unseen things that are just as visible or invisible to the atheist. Therefore, language apart, we are in the same boat and Christians and atheists are both “saved”.
    You either just don't understand religion and faith, especially Christianity, or you are the most clueless idiot on theologyweb.

    Wait. Those are not mutually exclusive.

    Carry on.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      You either just don't understand religion and faith, especially Christianity, or you are the most clueless idiot on theologyweb.
      Wait. Those are not mutually exclusive.
      Carry on.
      None of that goes to the argument itself.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • #4
        Atheists are saved by... what?
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Our ship earth has more voyagers in the quest for salvation then Christians and Atheists. There are Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics, Taoists, Muslims, and an assortment of others all concerned with salvation, including an assortments of pragmatists. The question from my perspective is what are we saved from?

          From the Baha'i perspective the main concern is the salvation of humanity in the unity and harmony of our spiritual nature. Unselfish sincerity and compassion for our fellow passengers on the ship 'Earth.' are more likely the touchstone of salvation then being concerned with salvation of ones own soul.

          Compassion

          Compassion is the earth,
          it is always beneath you regardless of flavor.
          It receives all in death,
          without judgment or favor.

          Love is the moon,
          a beautiful reflection in the lake.
          entwines the favored son,
          but fades dancing away in the wake.

          Compassion is the sun.
          The sun gives warmth and life to all,
          even the dark shadows in the morn
          receive light in the eve whether short or tall.

          Love is the moon
          sometime a smile, sometimes not
          dancing in the shadows
          sometimes there, sometimes not

          Compassion fills the air.
          to some a soft breeze.
          others a deadly roar and a prayer
          Not one nor the other to please.

          Love is the moon
          Playing hide and seek
          Sometimes a wink
          for those who vainly seek.

          Compassion is the sea,
          Ascending to the heavens unseen,
          returning again to give life.
          or a grave to some in the sea

          Love is the rose.
          Beautiful to behold,
          When no longer a rose,
          the thorns take hold.

          God is not a chess player
          with the white pieces.
          God is the sea . . .
          and we are the fishes.

          Frank A Doonan
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            What’s wrong with this?

            Christians and Atheists alike are the same type of creature and live in the same world and experience through their senses the same sorts of things. We are governed by the exact same physics. The difference is focused on one book that gives rise to a special language about things unseen. A Christian is a person tutored in that special language. Because the atheist does not see the same things that the Christian does not see the only difference between them is the language they use to describe the unseen things. All else being equal, the language a person uses does not affect his/her ‘spiritual’ state and therefore someone who uses the language of non-belief is just as ‘saved’, for example, as a Christian.

            Every time a Christian says you can’t be saved unless …… they are simply using their special language to describe the very same unseen things that are just as visible or invisible to the atheist. Therefore, language apart, we are in the same boat and Christians and atheists are both “saved”.
            It is not an argument about semantics FF. It is about the actual existence of God and whether or not we can connect with Him.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Atheists are saved by... what?
              Or saved from what?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Or saved from what?
                GOOD question!!!
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Atheists are saved by... what?
                  That’s you using your special language – to build a barrier.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    GOOD question!!!
                    Is that your own poetry (above) Frank?
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      None of that goes to the argument itself.
                      That's because you have no argument. You just make inane assertions in order to troll. I have stopped taking you seriously a long time ago.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                        That’s you using your special language – to build a barrier.
                        Nonsense, what would the atheist be saved from FF?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Or saved from what?
                          What I am trying to get at is that when you clear away the special language and this sort of question, you see, very obviously, that we are all in the same boat. It does not matter what you mean by being saved, if we are in the same boat, we are both saved.
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            That's because you have no argument. You just make inane assertions in order to troll. I have stopped taking you seriously a long time ago.
                            Again Sparko, no points.
                            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                            “not all there” - you know who you are

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                              What I am trying to get at is that when you clear away the special language and this sort of question, you see, very obviously, that we are all in the same boat. It does not matter what you mean by being saved, if we are in the same boat, we are both saved.
                              No we are not in the same boat, you are just making that up. The Christian actually believes that he is saved from sin and death - that they are realities. What is the atheist saved from?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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