A Conversion Story

[OingoBoingo]

The point is that mere feelings of dread and strange dreams aren't proof of anything.

For you maybe.

[whag]

Like I said, I have no idea if those psychological events are anything like what I experienced.



It would be logical for you but not for me. Since this experience was unlike anything I ever encountered before. I can not pawn it off as a mere psychological event, of course psychology is certainly involved. Here is another reason - I wasn't looking for this kind of encounter and there was a clear realization that the timing was not of my making. And since 1990, though I still sense a remnant or trace of His presence, this has not happened again.

How much more is expected of you after this powerful interaction compared to the person who receives nothing in comparison?

[seer]

The actuality is far more complex, and far more nuanced, than your brief statement above, but the statement in and of itself is certainly vital in understanding the limits of sharing knowledge.

Actually I don't think it is more complex or more nuanced, it is a clearly true. No man can escape his subjective view of the world.

[seer]

How much more is expected of you after this powerful interaction compared to the person who receives nothing in comparison?

I think I'm expected to love and follow the God of scripture and His Christ in a deeper, more committed fashion. But that is just a guess...

[Outis]

Sure. But you do concede that some people will conclude "there is something to this stuff".

I've never had any objection to that conclusion. While I am an agnostic, I certainly don't begrudge theists their beliefs.

That's a major problem for most of us concerning most things in life. We rely on expert testimony for things we can't personally verify. Somehow people are able to form opinions and come to conclusions and get on with their life.

For my part, I have to admit I find it much easier to do so with claims that I can verify. Your mileage may vary--and if it does, to my mind, there's nothing wrong with that.

[whag]

For you maybe.

That's because, like Thomas, I have a predisposition to doubt. Unlike Thomas, I didn't see fishes multiplied and people brought back from death.

[OingoBoingo]

I've never had any objection to that conclusion. While I am an agnostic, I certainly don't begrudge theists their beliefs.

In posts 12, 17 and 46 you implied that personal testimony is not a convincing apologetic. My reply to you was to show that it can be. It looks like you agree with that.

For my part, I have to admit I find it much easier to do so with claims that I can verify. Your mileage may vary--and if it does, to my mind, there's nothing wrong with that.

Sure. As individuals there's no one size fits all.

[Outis]

In posts 12, 17 and 46 you implied that personal testimony is not a convincing apologetic. My reply to you was to show that it can be. It looks like you agree with that.

I should have stated my views with a bit more detail.

There may be individuals for whom a conversion story is a persuasive apologetic. Based on my experience, however, those individuals are few and far between. Using a conversion experience story as a general apologetic is ineffective _for the vast majority_.

[Cow Poke]

I should have stated my views with a bit more detail.

There may be individuals for whom a conversion story is a persuasive apologetic. Based on my experience, however, those individuals are few and far between. Using a conversion experience story as a general apologetic is ineffective _for the vast majority_.

I pretty much agree, with the notable exception that the person telling the conversion story is somebody you genuinely know and respect.

[whag]

I pretty much agree, with the notable exception that the person telling the conversion story is somebody you genuinely know and respect.

Even in that case, I'd have to tell my Muslim friend that Allah should personally tell me what he sent a human messenger to tell me.

[OingoBoingo]

I should have stated my views with a bit more detail.

There may be individuals for whom a conversion story is a persuasive apologetic. Based on my experience, however, those individuals are few and far between. Using a conversion experience story as a general apologetic is ineffective _for the vast majority_.

I don't agree with that. Conversion doesn't generally happen overnight. A lot of people convert through progressive and open-minded investigation. The personal testimony of others plays a cumulative role in that investigation.

[Outis]

I don't agree with that. Conversion doesn't generally happen overnight. A lot of people convert through progressive and open-minded investigation. The personal testimony of others plays a cumulative role in that investigation.

That is your experience. I will respect it, without necessarily agreeing.

[OingoBoingo]

That is your experience. I will respect it, without necessarily agreeing.

Alright.

[Cow Poke]

Even in that case, I'd have to tell my Muslim friend that Allah should personally tell me what he sent a human messenger to tell me.

And, in that case, I'd suggest we look at the life of Jesus vs. the life of Muhammad.

[whag]

And, in that case, I'd suggest we look at the life of Jesus vs. the life of Muhammad.

Ok, let's start with Muhammed. By what mechanism did his revelation come?