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A Conversion Story

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  • #31
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    In what sense?
    In this sense:


    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      In the late summer and early Autumn of 1990 I had three of these experiences - powerful, terrifying and wonderful. At one point I thought this "presence" was going to kill me - I begged Him/it to stop. At that point I had no knowledge of the experience of a CS Lewis or others who went through this, so I too was questioning my sanity. I was 37 years old at the time, and like most human beings I had run the gambit of emotional experiences - good and bad. But this was nothing like any experience I had in the past, it was completely different. I don't believe that one could understand this encounter unless one experienced it themselves. It was wholly foreign to any past reference. So the skeptic would have to reduce this to a mere psychological event, that is understandable, but for the person who had this overwhelming "sense" that reduction just doesn't ring true.
      psychological events have a wide and terrifying range, all while being composed merely of physiology.

      why does God couch his communication this way rather than more clearly?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by whag View Post
        psychological events have a wide and terrifying range, all while being composed merely of physiology.

        why does God couch his communication this way rather than more clearly?
        What sort of personal experience of God would not be psychological in nature? I'm thinking any personal experience with the creator of the universe is bound to blow your mind.

        But there are many claims of people converting to Christianity through more mundane experiences. Some have converted after witnessing something they believe was miraculous. Some have converted after considering the teachings of the Bible. Some have converted because they were impressed by the experiences of others. Some have converted for other reasons, or because of a mixture of reasons. Its not always a mind blowing event. Some people convert quietly and calmly, some people convert kicking and screaming.

        Anyways, if the Christian worldview is true, then God has communicated in a non-psychological way in the form of an itinerant Jewish sage living in ancient Palestine.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
          I don't even understand the argument. Every person who has a vision or experience of Jesus must append their experience to the Bible? Huh?
          If revelation is ongoing then canonization is a bad idea. Jesus can’t get a word in edgeways because we are too focused on His old material.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by whag View Post
            psychological events have a wide and terrifying range, all while being composed merely of physiology.
            Yes and I have experienced most psychological events common to man, and this was nothing like those, nothing.

            why does God couch his communication this way rather than more clearly?
            Well this experience was not only powerful, but clear. See whag, I can not explain to someone else what this is like, its enough to say that you know that you are in the presence of something awesome, terrifying and wonderful.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              If revelation is ongoing then canonization is a bad idea. Jesus can’t get a word in edgeways because we are too focused on His old material.
              The article in the OP isn't an example of ongoing revelation. Maybe you're confusing a personal revelation of Jesus with the revelation of original doctrine and inspired teaching. In the orthodox Christian tradition revelation of new teaching and doctrine is fixed, with the anticipation of the second coming and the general resurrection. Claims to revelation that seek to add to or contradict fixed teaching and doctrine are deemed outside of the pale of orthodox Christian belief.
              Last edited by OingoBoingo; 02-27-2014, 10:00 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
                I don't even understand the argument. Every person who has a vision or experience of Jesus must append their experience to the Bible?
                Firstfloor is engaged in mockery.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Outis View Post
                  Firstfloor is engaged in mockery.
                  Yup, he's a . Even though I disagree with you often, I have far more respect for you, than for him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Outis View Post
                    Firstfloor is engaged in mockery.
                    Well that makes better sense of it then.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      In this sense:

                      David used Uriah as arrow fodder, and Paul persecuted Christians. Despite their assery, they were divinely interacted with. I merely told you that Job isn't pure recorded history, and you're still holding a grudge.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                        Paul was blinded and Kirsten was traumatized for several days at least.
                        Yeah, find a blind person, and tell them that you are "traumatized for a couple days" by a vision, and see if he/she agrees with the "sameness".

                        You really aren't very good at this, are you?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by whag View Post
                          David used Uriah as arrow fodder, and Paul persecuted Christians. Despite their assery, they were divinely interacted with. I merely told you that Job isn't pure recorded history, and you're still holding a grudge.
                          God will use whatever means he deems effective to reach someone, whether it be divine intervention or a website like theologyweb. Your mockery of God just shows you to be a jackass and will not respond to anything God would do to reach you so why would he bother? Or maybe he is trying to reach you but you are just ignoring him. But like Seer said, you are still breathing so there is hope for you yet.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            God will use whatever means he deems effective to reach someone, whether it be divine intervention or a website like theologyweb.
                            You mean he uses you to post ass pictures? That's a more mild form of divine intervention but intervention nonetheless, where you're the medium of God's expression.

                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Your mockery of God just shows you to be a jackass and will not respond to anything God would do to reach you so why would he bother?
                            You'll have to cite where I mocked god.

                            As to "why would he bother?" that's an anthropomorphic question and idiotic in the context of all those the bible says he bothered with. It's like you really don't read the bible.


                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Or maybe he is trying to reach you but you are just ignoring him. But like Seer said, you are still breathing so there is hope for you yet.
                            You don't really believe that. You're more content to think God has forsaken me for imagined reasons, such as my mocking him. Good luck looking for those posts, and make sure to look at the context before you quote me. I'm perfectly willing to apologize if I think I went over the line.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Yes and I have experienced most psychological events common to man, and this was nothing like those, nothing.
                              People with temporal lobe epilepsy can feel condemned by god. It's not common, but neither are the experiences you and this lady describe.



                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Well this experience was not only powerful, but clear. See whag, I can not explain to someone else what this is like, its enough to say that you know that you are in the presence of something awesome, terrifying and wonderful.
                              .

                              Please don't take offense, but you offered her story as a proof of sorts. If I have questions about that proof, please don't think I'm mocking god.

                              As for the indescribability of this experience, other religious believers have similar claims. So if I were to take the indescribability of it as somehow being proof of its divine origin, I would similarly have to regard non-Christian numinous experiences as genuine. I'd have no good reason not to.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Whag, her experiences were not to convince you, they were to convince her.

                                Comment

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