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Theology 201 Guidelines

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    This view makes Luke 10:20 meaningless.
    Source: Luke 10:20

    Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.

    © Copyright Original Source



    If everyone's name is written in the book of life until they die without Christ, what grounds are there for rejoicing? None. It's like a soccer league where everyone gets a trophy.
    Because it is written, ". . . they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters." --Jeremiah 17:13.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      I frankly do not know how God handles that, but it doesn't mean what you think it means. Further, is this any worse than a view in which God blots out the name of everyone when they reach the age of accountability, whatever that is, and then writes them back in again if they become saved?
      Except almost no one accepts Christ at the instant of the age of accountability.
      Yes, you've said that already. Repeating it doesn't make it any more true, or provide further support.
      Fine. You do not agree. The only two things you need to be convinced of here. It is what I understand to be true about names written in the book of life. And my view is not a contradiction of the word of God on this matter.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Because it is written, ". . . they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters." --Jeremiah 17:13.
        This implies that the name is not written until departure. This refutes your interpretation rather than supporting it. Further, in context, this is part of a prayer to God, not a revelation from God. My Jewish translation captures this well:

        Source: Jer 17:13 Artscroll English Tanakh

        O HASHEM, Hope of Israel! May all who forsake You be ashamed; may those who turn aside from my [teachings] be inscribed [for burial in the earth]; for they have forsaken HASHEM, the Source of fresh water.

        © Copyright Original Source



        In other words, the passage is talking about the prophet's desire, not the Word of the Lord.

        Originally posted by 37818
        Fine. You do not agree. The only two things you need to be convinced of here. It is what I understand to be true about names written in the book of life.
        I have no issue with that.
        And my view is not a contradiction of the word of God on this matter.
        Your view is not a contradiction of your interpretation of the word of God on this matter. And you admit that your interpretation is nontraditional.
        Last edited by One Bad Pig; 03-26-2015, 09:16 AM.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          This implies that the name is not written until departure. This refutes your interpretation rather than supporting it. Further, in context, this is part of a prayer to God, not a revelation from God. My Jewish translation captures this well:

          Source: Jer 17:13 Artscroll English Tanakh

          O HASHEM, Hope of Israel! May all who forsake You be ashamed; may those who turn aside from my [teachings] be inscribed [for burial in the earth]; for they have forsaken HASHEM, the Source of fresh water.

          © Copyright Original Source



          In other words, the passage is talking about the prophet's desire, not the Word of the Lord.
          1917 Jewish Publication Society Translation has: "Thou hope of Israel, the LORD! All that forsake Thee shall be ashamed; they that depart from Thee shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters."

          And the current Tanakh English translation has: "The Lord who is the source of the hopes of Israel, all that forsake You shall be shamed, and they who turn away from me shall be marked out on the earth that they have forsaken the source of living waters, the Lord."




          Your view is not a contradiction of your interpretation of the word of God on this matter. And you admit that your interpretation is nontraditional.
          Only where tradition is contrary or different from the plain teaching of holy scripture. And then only in matters of interpretation which are not essentials to the genuine Christian faith.
          Last edited by 37818; 03-26-2015, 02:09 PM.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            Only where tradition is contrary or different from the plain teaching of holy scripture. And then only in matters of interpretation which are not essentials to the genuine Christian faith.
            We disagree both on the "plain teaching" and what are the essentials.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #51
              Could it be that we are trespassing into ground that God has forbidden us to trod?

              Romans 10:6-8King James Version (KJV)
              6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
              7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
              8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

              Comment

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