If true it does not change a thing. Here is why: We do not know who all of God's elect are. So we must preach to all, believe the gospel, that God sent His Son to die for the ungodly. Who are the ungodly? All men both of the elect and non-elect. Did not Christ only secure salvation for His elect? Indeed He did. We still need to preach the gospel as if Christ died for every man.
Announcement
Collapse
Theology 201 Guidelines
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
The truth about limited atonement.
Collapse
X
-
The truth about limited atonement.
Last edited by 37818; 02-27-2015, 02:21 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJVTags: None
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostIf true it does not change a thing. Here is why: We do not know who all of God's elect are. So we must preach to all, believe the gospel, that God sent His Son to die for the ungodly. Who are the ungodly? All men both of the elect and non-elect. Did not Christ only secure salvation for His elect? Indeed He did. We still need to preach the gospel as if Christ died for every man.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhy? If they are elect, they need absolutely nothing from us. Not a single word.
". . . How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" -- Romans 10:14, 15.
The elect are the one's who will hear and then believe the gospel. The non-elect will not believe upon hearing.
Jesus tells the non-elect,
". . . He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." -- John 8:47.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostOriginally posted by 37818 View PostIf true it does not change a thing. Here is why: We do not know who all of God's elect are. So we must preach to all, believe the gospel, that God sent His Son to die for the ungodly. Who are the ungodly? All men both of the elect and non-elect. Did not Christ only secure salvation for His elect? Indeed He did. We still need to preach the gospel as if Christ died for every man.
Comment
-
The election is God's. Christ's payment for sin secures the salvation of those whom God saves and keeps. [Belief in limited atonement is not required to understand this.]. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe election is God's. Christ's payment for sin secures the salvation of those whom God saves and keeps. [Belief in limited atonement is not required to understand this.]The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe election is God's. Christ's payment for sin secures the salvation of those whom God saves and keeps. [Belief in limited atonement is not required to understand this.]
Thus, the Calvinist position. God decides whom to save and then sends His son to affect their salvation.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostIf it is God who saves and keeps, then atonement is limited to who God saves and keeps - yet all can be saved (universalism) if God decides to save and keep all but it would still be limited atonement. Limited atonement does not refer to who is saved but to who decides who will be saved.
Thus, the Calvinist position. God decides whom to save and then sends His son to affect their salvation.Last edited by 37818; 02-28-2015, 02:10 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostThat is a false gospel view.
". . . How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" -- Romans 10:14, 15.
The elect are the one's who will hear and then believe the gospel. The non-elect will not believe upon hearing.
Jesus tells the non-elect,
". . . He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." -- John 8:47.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostExcept that God has set up the process so that we are involved.
It is the preaching of the gospel that God uses to draw His elect out of the world.
Paul said "Whereunto I also labor, striving according to his working, which works in me mightily."That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhere did you hide the pits from those cherry-picked out of context verses?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostOriginally posted by rhutchin View PostIt is the preaching of the gospel that God uses to draw His elect out of the world.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostThe term, "all," refers to Jews and gentiles (as opposed to just the Jews) with this meaning established by Ephesians 3. If you want to change this meaning, you need an argument, with supporting Scriptures, to do so. The "limited" in limited atonement mans that salvation decisions are limited to God - the "U" of TULIP. God chooses whom to save and then sends His son to save them - the atonement being limited to those whom God has chosen to save.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostThe term, "all," refers to Jews and gentiles (as opposed to just the Jews) with this meaning established by Ephesians 3.
If you want to change this meaning, you need an argument, with supporting Scriptures, to do so.
The "limited" in limited atonement mans that salvation decisions are limited to God - the "U" of TULIP.
God chooses whom to save and then sends His son to save them - the atonement being limited to those whom God has chosen to save.
They are the elect of God before the point in time when they personally respond to the gospel.
Paul says in Galatians, "...when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:..." God chose when to reveal Christ to Paul.
Paul immediately responded. That is the way it happens. God's elect were identified in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world - "...they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,..." (Rev 17)That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by rhutchin View PostThe term, "all," refers to Jews and gentiles (as opposed to just the Jews) with this meaning established by Ephesians 3. If you want to change this meaning, you need an argument, with supporting Scriptures, to do so.
I am guessing this is a typo...right?
Comment
widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Comment